MacBook

[Keith Smith]

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On 2016-08-24 21:14, Victor D Odhner wrote:
> I retired from my *nix work early 2013 and have left technical
> projects for people activities. I have used a Macbook Pro since then,
> and love it for portability and ruggedness - yay SSD!, I've fumbled it
> a few times when running, once on concrete, keeps on ticking. I have
> not been a developer in that environment, yet have noted several
> little breaks in compatibility that could trip you up. I'm sure there
> are web sites discussing that.
> 
> I still visit my mint/mate desktop periodically as my "real home." I
> also use a Mac Mini at church running music apps, and that was a great
> and affordable choice.
> 
> We have bought the extended warranty and I enjoyed several
> consultations at the Genius Bar, for other Macs in the family; now
> those are mostly replaced by Windows boxes, largely second hand. (I
> use Computers&? -- "Computers And Questions" -- on Tatum south of
> Bell, true geeks who give solid service on not-new boxes for not-rich
> clients.)
> 
> Remember that Mac is a culture, designed for people with a twitter
> attention span. Apple cares not at all about making this work with
> other brands. Like M$ and Google, they want to own you. They nag you
> to take new OS updates, adding features for better one-ness with all
> your other Apple toys (I have none) and possibly breaking
> geek-critical functions. And remember how Motorola users were
> abandoned when they switched to Intel.


I wrote a research paper on Apple in about 1989.  That was when I 
learned Apple had twice failed to be backward compatible during 
upgrades.  That and the cost kept me away from Apple way back then.




> 
> So while a Macbook *is* great in a lot of ways, doing nice glossy
> things and looking a lot like home when you're on the command line,
> you might want to keep a Linux system warmed up to host some basic
> functions that Apple can't make money on and therefore won't mind
> screwing up.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Eric Oyen
> Date:2016/08/24 20:22 (GMT-07:00)
> To: Main PLUG discussion list
> 
> Subject: Re: MacBook
> 
> who was screaming that the post was irrelevant? I certainly wasn't. :)
> 
> At the end of the day, Linux still needs a lot of work to be
> considered to be a viable desktop production environment.
> 
> can you get quicken for linux? what about Peachtree? How about a full
> office suite that can do the same things that MS office can do? what
> about some of the other mainstream office and production apps? are
> there many equivalents or direct replacements? THis is the primary
> problem I have seen with linux over the years. great OS support, but
> lousy where it counts.
> 
> -eric
> 
> On Aug 24, 2016, at 5:24 PM, James Dugger wrote:
> 
>> Short answer: Regarding Business productivity - My advice go with
>> the Macbook Pro. Also I believe you can get a 13-inch with 16GB and
>> a 500GB SSD for less than $2k.
>> 
>> I switched from Microsoft to Linux on all servers and desktops in my
>> former business only to switch the desktops to Apple products from
>> Linux. Linux just doesn't have parody in new application
>> implementations on the desktop where it mattered. And I haven't met
>> a business owner yet who was willing to hang out in Linux until
>> someone got around to making it work.
>> 
>> Regarding the cost - My experience is the any of the professional
>> line laptops in any brand end up with a unit cost of use less than
>> their cheaper counterparts. The MacBook Pro is no different and is
>> comparably priced to any of these lines when you spec the stuff
>> inside.
>> 
>> MacBook Pro is the developers choice because at any price it is the
>> only product on which you can easily build a development environment
>> for any of the other environments. If your going to spend $2k on a
>> laptop it better work in all of the possible environments in which
>> may need to develop.
>> 
>> A question was asked regarding the relevance of posting this to a
>> Linux list. How about this - I love Linux and develop products that
>> are used in the tens of thousands of Linux instances in my company
>> everyday... but I could write a book about how frustrating it is
>> that I don't have the option to have Linux as a viable OS option on
>> the desktop in a business use case, ironically in a company that is
>> central to the use of Linux in an industry.
>> 
>> On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Eric Oyen <eric.oyen at icloud.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> yes, as my old 2007 whitebook can attest. unfortunately, the
>> software and some of the apps are no longer supported and getting
>> anything newer on here just isn't going to happen. where does this
>> leave me? well, stuck on old hardware that is becoming less and less
>> useful as apps and web design make it harder to cope. At some point,
>> I just might decide to put paid to OS X lion and do a full linux
>> install on here.
>> 
>> SOme of the features of OS X that I will miss:
>> keychains (this password vault has been a lifesaver)
>> apps that "just work" without having to tweak or prod.
>> easy to use interface for the blind (voiceover)
>> and just about anything else not covered by the above.
>> 
>> SOme things I am looking forward to as I transition to Linux on this
>> device:
>> upgraded applications capable of new and interesting things
>> support for apps that use GTK, perl, ruby, and other
>> scripts/programming languages that can be easily adapted for the
>> blind (hell, all the libraries to do this are built in).
>> enhanced performance (linux still has the lowest overhead of any OS
>> I know of other than OpenBSD).
>> Security (windows still can't touch this!).
>> access to utilities and applications not readily available on other
>> platforms.
>> OPEN SORCE
>> mostly free (or low cost through donation) - I am willing to pay if
>> my budget supports it.
>> 
>> now, I have been a long time user of Linux (really since almost its
>> beginnings) and also a longtime member of PLUG (one of the original
>> steering committee members here!).
>> 
>> Still, there is something to be said for an OS/machine that "just
>> works". I just wish apple would hop on the Linux bandwagon and offer
>> an alternative OS for those times when OS X seems too bloated.
>> 
>> -Eric (founder of the Technomage Guild)
>> 
>> On Aug 24, 2016, at 9:25 AM, Alan Dayley wrote:
>> 
>> My younger son is still using my five year old 15" MacBook Pro. It
>> has no problems. I replaced the hard drive with a Samsung SSD about
>> four years ago only because I wanted the improved performance. The
>> whole system as zero problems.
>> 
>> My older son is now using my four year old 13" MacBook Air. It has
>> had zero problems except that the battery doesn't hold a charge for
>> more than 2 hours any more. Normal battery wear. That notebook spent
>> four years traveling all over with me, almost every week in my bag
>> going and coming from somewhere. The only physical issue is a few of
>> the keyboard key tops are scratched down from my fingernails.
>> 
>> I have run Ubuntu and Mint on both of the systems without issue.
>> Though I confess to spending most of my time in OS X.
>> 
>> I now have a four month old 13" MacBook Air. Has double the RAM of
>> my previous unit. It helps. Buy as much RAM as you can.
>> 
>> Apple hardware, in my experience, is both beautiful and durable.
>> 
>> Alan
>> 
>> On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Anon Anon <lokotejones at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I have a MacBook pro I use at work. It's a Mac. It'll work. It's a
>> bastardized bsd box.
>> 
>> I haven't turned mine off in months. If you need a Mac, buy it.
>> 
>> Why not try running mac os in a virtual box machine to try it out
>> before hand?
>> 
>> On Aug 24, 2016 08:54, "Keith Smith" <techlists at phpcoderusa.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I'm strongly considering buying a Macbook pro.
>> 
>> I'm a LAMP (PHP) developer. Currently I use Mint on a Dell. Both
>> laptop and desktop. I do have a Dell laptop that runs M$ 10. Was a
>> bad move upgrading from M$7 to M$10... another story for another
>> day.
>> 
>> The reason for my desired move is I want something that just works.
>> I do not have the time nor do I have the expertise to maintain Linux
>> Mint when there is an issue. For instance Dropbox does not launch
>> correctly. I have a work around, but do not want to have to figure
>> this stuff out. JoinMe.com [1] does no work completely on my Linux
>> desktop and I need it so I use my Windows laptop. I can watch but I
>> cannot become the presenter.
>> 
>> Moving to Mac is purely a business decision.
>> 
>> Up to this point I have bought cheap on sale Dell.
>> 
>> I also need Virtualbox because I need to develop using PHP 5.6 and
>> PHP 7.
>> 
>> In doing my research I have narrowed my search to the Macbook Pro
>> 13.3 or 15.4 inch models. I'm leaning towards the 15.4 since it has
>> 16GB of RAM. I suspect with the SSD drives these Macs have to sing.
>> 
>> My shock is the $2000 price tag. Yikes. I'm used to cheap dell
>> hardware that I pay $300 to $400 for on sale. I can see Best Buy is
>> selling the MacBook at a slightly discounted price.
>> 
>> If I can be just a little more productive the Mac will pay for
>> itself in no time.
>> 
>> The other thing I like about the Pro is it allows for driving two
>> external monitors. At the resolution the Pro provides that should be
>> a lot of real estate give the laptop monitor makes 3. The only
>> downside I am aware of is with the external monitors the refresh
>> rate drops to 30Hz. I think someone on this list brought that up and
>> they did not like that low of a refresh rate.
>> 
>> I think I would find iMovie and Pages useful. And I could add an
>> iPhone to the mix and utilize those benefits.
>> 
>> If I buy the Mackbook pro 15.4 inch with 16GB of RAM what would be
>> a reasonable life expectancy in a production environment? What would
>> I be able to reasonably expect working it 12+ hours a day, day in
>> day?
>> 
>> Any and every thought is much appreciated.
>> 
>> --
>> Keith Smith
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> --
> 
> James
> 
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-- 
Keith Smith