Killing PLUG softly

[Alan Dayley]

It's not:

That we don't all have other things to talk about,
that we aren't knowledgeable about other things,
that I don't want to talk to many of you about many things,
that I don't want to hear about immigration or taxes or whatever,
that I can't handle hitting the delete key,
that I disagree (or agree) about what is being said.

I'm not saying any of those things are my issue with having a lot of
off-topic discussions.

I am saying that PLUG is not intended to be the forum for everything
we could possibly talk about or debate.  Doing so dilutes our ability
to have specific meaning.  It destroys our attraction to new members.
It causes the group to loose relevancy.

Taken to the extreme conclusion, talking about everything turns PLUG
into just a club of people who like to talk about stuff.  I can get
that anywhere!  What's hard to find is a clear, intelligent
conversation around Linux/FS/OSS.  I've tried to have such
conversations at other technology events.  Doesn't happen.  And if it
doesn't happen here, it will be lost to Phoenix.

On the other hand, if we (the group) wishes to take the list in this
direction, I am but one voice.

Alan

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:30 PM, Joshua Zeidner <jjzeidner at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>  I agree, the people who are complaining about 'Off Topic' just don't want
> to hear what is being said.  It's a few emails- it's so disastrous?  These
> topics are very much about Arizona, and they WILL effect us all.  Some
> people just want to reify the discussion because thats a very effective way
> to make it go away.  -jmz
>
> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:17 PM, Michael Havens <bmike1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I get much good information from PLUG. I get good information from
>> on-topic discussions and off-topic discussions. This is a community and we
>> should talk about everything. Everything includes on and off topic things.
>> We have the political debates once in a while but it always falls to the way
>> side after things ccalm down. If you can't handle this community then find
>> another one. I don't want to see you go but if you can't handle it.....
>>
>> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 8:56 PM, Alan Dayley <alandd at consultpros.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, Matt.
>>>
>>> I disagree.  plug-discuss is the single most important communication
>>> channel for PLUG, bar none.  The meetings are very important but the
>>> glue that holds the group together is this email list.  It is, in my
>>> opinion, a weakness of the group that we have not created nor embraced
>>> other communication channels.  So we are very dependent on this one
>>> email list to be the binder that holds Phoenix Linux people together.
>>>
>>> What makes a group?  Communication, interaction, shared purpose, among
>>> other things.  PLUG is not a legal entity with by-laws or money.
>>> There is no marketing budget.  This list is it.
>>>
>>> OK, that sounds a bit dramatic, thinking to highly of PLUG's
>>> importance.  But, take the this list away and the group will shrink to
>>> nearly nothing, if not die.  I suppose that would not be a big
>>> disaster in the grand scheme of the world or even just Phoenix.  But
>>> it would be a shame.
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 8:41 PM,  <matt.nesteruk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Allen,
>>> >
>>> > Its just email
>>> >
>>> > -Matt
>>> > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: Alan Dayley <alandd at consultpros.com>
>>> > Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 20:38:34
>>> > To: Main PLUG discussion list<plug-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
>>> > Subject: Killing PLUG softly
>>> >
>>> > I've stayed out of this latest round of off-topic threads.  I am happy
>>> > to see vibrant discussion.  I am unhappy to see personal attacks and
>>> > other silliness.  I'm unhappy to see it go on and on.
>>> >
>>> > This is enough.  It's just enough.
>>> >
>>> > I don't go to a email list or forum on topic A to be drown in
>>> > discussions about topic W.  That topic W may be important, the points
>>> > and counter-points offered in brilliance and courtesy doesn't matter.
>>> > If the venue is supposed to be about topic A, the majority of the
>>> > conversation should be about topic A.  Etiquette and respect for the
>>> > community around the chosen topic dictate that other topics should be
>>> > minimal.
>>> >
>>> > It doesn't matter how strongly you feel about what someone said about
>>> > some off-topic post.  Continuing to reply off-topic such that the main
>>> > purpose of the community is drowning into the background is
>>> > disrespectful.  Don't do it.  For example, it would be rude of me to
>>> > go to a meeting of alcoholics anonymous and use my turn to talk so
>>> > that I might espouse the benefits of a vegetarian diet.  Don't do it.
>>> >
>>> > - Using the delete key is not the answer because that only masks the
>>> > destruction of the group's purpose.  And only masks it for one person.
>>> >  Same with filters.
>>> > - Flagging as "OT" is helpful but when the OT posts dwarf the
>>> > purpose-oriented information, such a tag is nearly useless.
>>> > - Moderation is not the answer because that will suck volunteer's time
>>> > and smacks of "babysitter-ism"  Do we really need to be forced into
>>> > good manners?  Really?
>>> >
>>> > This is a Linux email list created by a Linux User Group for the
>>> > purposes of discussing Linux and subjects directly related to Linux.
>>> > Period.  Politics should only be discussed when it directly effects
>>> > Linux/OSS/FS use and promotion in some way.  To continue all this
>>> > discussion of boycotts, immigration and the like is killing the core
>>> > meaning of the group.
>>> >
>>> > Stop.  Please.
>>> >
>>> > Alan
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>
>
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