OT ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

Tue May 18 12:45:42 MST 2010

I would be surprised if you DIDN'T see crime being in law enforcement, but
your anecdotal evidence, while shocking at first, isn't very compelling.
Just because people keep repeating talking points won't make me believe
them.

For example, you said Phoenix is the kidnap capital of the world...from
everything I can find I see it is number two in the world, after Mexico
City. Sure, nothing to brag about,but just an example. Cites:
http://www.project.org/info.php?recordID=158
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/02/12/mexican-drug-cartels-make-phoenix-2-in-world-for-kidnappings/
http://www.drugaddictiontreatment.com/addiction-news/drug-crimes/phoenix-number-two-kidnapping-capital-as-drug-cartel-wars-intensify/I
also see pepole in forums making a reference that it is number one in
the
world, but I don't see what kind of weight hhat has...here someone uses the
claim you made to try to sell karate classes:
http://phoenix.backpage.com/Classes/phoenix-is-the-kidnap-capital-of-the-world-see-you-at-arizona-traditional-karate/10020835

But honestly, not really afraid myself. I do feel sorry for you, and other
people if you are filled with fear. I don't think our policies should be
motivated by fear.

So you are seriously telling me the DOJ stats, cited by the conservative
CATO institute, are misinformation?

In terms of the rest of your email. I don't deny that there is a drug war (a
whole other can of worms) going on, but that doesn't mean that I want a
father to be deported when he gets pulled over at a traffic stop, when his
wife and kids have their papers, and he doesn't. Make him register. Make him
pay a fine. Give him a path to citizenship. Imagine how afraid the wife and
kids are,right now, wondering if the next time they get in the car their
father is going to be put hauled away.

I just am sick of what I see as people saying things aren't going well for
me (economically, career-wise, my love life, etc), so I may as well blame a
Mexican!

Immigrants Add Nearly $1 Billion Annually to Arizona's Economy
http://uanews.org/node/13529
 Also, if the economy is bad, many undocumented workers will leave anyways!
It's simple supply and demand. this all the way from 2008:

Arizona Seeing Signs of Flight by Immigrants
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/12/us/12arizona.html

I agree we need comprehensive immigration reform. and if there's any upside
to sb1070 I hope it will be to help force the feds to take action.

2010/5/18 keith smith <klsmith2020 at yahoo.com>

> More misinformation.  We have had 3 or 4 police officers killed by Illegals
> in the recent past.  Phoenix is the kidnap capital of the WORLD.  Most of
> the kidnaps, tortures, and murders are illegals.
>
> I called ICE and they told me they estimate there are about 500,000
> illegals in Phoenix.  That means there is a MILLION! As a police officer I
> saw plenty of violence - rape, knifings, shootings, and homicides
> perpetrated by illegals.
>
> Just because the crime rate is not rising means nothing.  It means that if
> 25% of the homicides are perpetrated by illegals and nothing changes we have
> the same crime level.
>
> It is being reported that half of all homicides in LA are perpetrated by
> Illegals.
>
> Last year I talked with a Border Patrolman who worked on the border by
> Nogales.  He said it was no man's land.  Are you hearing about the gun
> battles on the border.  No you are not.  You have no idea what is happening
> right here in our own community.
>
> If you want the truth turn off your TV and start reading the blogs.  The
> real truth is our there.
>
>
>
> ------------------------
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, Ariel Gold <arielqgold at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Ariel Gold <arielqgold at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: OT ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 11:40 PM
>
> Sure, some of the radical rhetoric, on both sides, sounds scary, and I
> understand people are upset and angry. While I don't think a listserv lends
> to people understanding each other on a volatile issue like this, I thought
> I'd still share this link from the conservative think tank, the Cato
> Institute.
>
> Misguided Fears of Crime Fuel Arizona Immigration Law
>
> http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2010/04/27/misguided-fears-of-crime-fuel-arizona-immigration-law/
>
>
>
>
> 2010/5/17 Bryan O'Neal <Bryan.ONeal at theonealandassociates.com<http://mc/compose?to=Bryan.ONeal@theonealandassociates.com>
> >
>
>> Indeed I did ;)
>>
>> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:01 PM, Tim Noeding <tim.noeding at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=tim.noeding@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>> > Flame wars? Really? Did you all read that linux magazine article about
>> how
>> > the editor thinks they are enjoyable reads?
>> >
>> > from my DROID
>> >
>> > On May 17, 2010 9:41 PM, "Bryan O&apos;Neal"
>> > <Bryan.ONeal at theonealandassociates.com<http://mc/compose?to=Bryan.ONeal@theonealandassociates.com>>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Did you not even read you cited references? It is more like if I
>> > called your mama fat beat you up and then drove off down the street in
>> > your car after tossing you a few bucks and a pick of your naked sister
>> > out the window onto your limp body and then when the cops showed up
>> > made you say thank you and apologize for wasting my time ;)
>> >
>> > Not that I am complaining. I think it was a bold move that paid off
>> > very, very, well. But denying the nature of the conflict is like
>> > saying the Civil War was fought over slavery. It is fine for your Jr.
>> > High text book but when grow, otherwise intelligent, people try
>> > spouting that stuff they are either American idiots or just don't
>> > care.
>> >
>> > To quote from the wikipidia page you cited.
>> >
>> > "The Mexican–American War was an armed conflict between the United
>> > States and Mexico from 1846 to 1848 in the wake of the 1845 U.S.
>> > annexation of Texas, which Mexico considered part of its territory
>> > despite the 1836 Texas Revolution.
>> >
>> > In addition to a naval blockade of the Mexican coast, American forces
>> > invaded and conquered New Mexico, California and parts of northern
>> > Mexico. Another American army captured Mexico City, forcing Mexico to
>> > agree to the sale of its northern territories to the U.S."
>> >
>> > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:47 PM, JD Austin <jd at twingeckos.com<http://mc/compose?to=jd@twingeckos.com>>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at...
>> >
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