[keith smith]

--- On Sun, 2/21/10, Craig White <craigwhite at azapple.com> wrote:

> From: Craig White <craigwhite at azapple.com>
> Subject: Re: Re:
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 6:07 PM
> On Sun, 2010-02-21 at 16:36 -0800,
> keith smith wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Craig White <craigwhite at azapple.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > > ----
> > > I found it refreshingly easier to learn and work
> with.
> > > 
> > > Craig
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > 
> > I worked with CodeIgniter sometime ago and found the
> learning curve to be more than I liked.  I also found
> it to be confining.  Maybe it was just me.
> > 
> > I have since started to use the MVC pattern in PHP
> development, which helps with keeping the code clean. 
> Controler in one file, Data in another, View in
> another.  Much cleaner and might even speedup the
> development time.
> > 
> > Rapid Application Development is something I have
> brought up on the PHP list several times, since I started on
> the command line, traveled through the RAD GUI era and am
> now doing browser based stuff.
> > 
> > It feels like we are back in the DOS days of
> command-line development.  We lack the ability to
> visually drag a widget onto a form and set it's
> configuration and move on to the next widget.  Not only
> did you get what you saw, it was a lot faster.
> > 
> > I'm always looking for ways to work faster and more
> efficiently but do not see it at this point.
> > 
> > I have entertained Delphi for PHP because that may be
> the closest we get to a RAD GUI for building browser based
> applications.
> > 
> > I'm very interested in hearing anyone's and everyone's
> responses.
> ----
> every framework that I have ever seen is confining...that
> is the point
> of a framework. And yes, they will have their own learning
> curves but
> you seem to toss away what benefits you actually derive
> from using the
> framework.
> 
> In the case of RoR, you not only get a prescribed MVC
> structure, you
> inherit thousands of predefined methods (some languages
> would describe
> them as procedures), view helpers, db abstraction and
> integrated
> testing.
> 
> Don't confuse the topics of development tools and
> language/frameworks -
> they are entirely separate issues.
> 
> If you want rapid development with GUI interfaces, just use
> Filemaker or
> 4D or go back to FoxBase. Many years ago I saw a
> demonstration of
> Apple's Web Objects - very cool, but I never knew a soul
> who actually
> used it.
> 
> Craig
> 
> 

Graig,

FoxBase did not have a GUI as I recall.  But for it's time is was RAD in both senses of the word.  Visual FoxPro was very cool!!  I enjoyed it immensely.  

The problem is Visual FoxPro as I knew it would not be good for building websites.  The concept is however applicable and raises the issue of RAD tools for web application development.

In the sense that a framework might speed development it is a RAD tool.  That is why the comparison.

This topic always looses steam before it gets going.

And I would agree with you about leveraging proven debugged code that is found in a mature framework.  It is a great asset, makes things easier, and will help alleviate some bugs.