A programming language for learning (Was: Re: )

[James Finstrom]

I like c as you can find its basics in so many other languages. I also
like php because it transitions well and offers a link to oop but its
a dirty evil language that allows too many bad habbits. I do think if
you go the c route or c++ it gives you a ton of paths to branch out

On 2/20/10, Alan Dayley <alandd at consultpros.com> wrote:
> Every language has strengths and weaknesses.  Some one wanted the
> strengths and so designed the language for that reason.  Python is
> appropriate for many things and not appropriate for many others.  So
> is any other language.
>
> Mike wanted a suggestion for learning a language.  Python is an easy
> language to start with because:
> - the learner can see results quickly for encouragement.
> - there is an excellent community to support the learner.
> - there is a large body of libraries (modules) to add interesting
> functionality quickly.
> - there is a large body of documentation, tutorials, etc. available
> online and in print.
>
> Does using Python cause bad habits that may hinder the learner when
> attempting to use other languages or creating other types of programs?
>  Probably, depending on the next language and application.  The same
> can be said for any other programming language.
>
> For example, my career has mostly involved developing embedded
> executables in low resource environments.  Only recently has any
> object-oriented compiler reached a point where coding such systems
> using OO principles makes sense.  Sometimes, in low resource target
> environments, all kinds of taboo coding behaviors are necessary.
>
> So, if Python is not appropriate in your experience, which language or
> languages would you suggest for a first-time, self-learner?  Why?
>
> BTW, there are several "How to think like a computer scientist" books,
> each centered on a different language.  They are very good.  So, if
> Python is not the one, go with Java or C++
> (http://www.greenteapress.com/)
>
> Alan
>
> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Kevin Fries <kfries6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Wow, now I know why it is so hard to hire people that are competent!
>>  Python is fun, not right, but fun... Thats your argument?  If you want to
>> know why we refuse to hire Python programmers at our company, I can give
>> you real facts on why you should not use that language as a place to
>> learn... Not opinions.
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> Sent from my Nokia phone
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Zeidner
>> Sent:  02/20/2010 4:17:23 PM
>> Subject:  Re:
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Joshua Zeidner <jjzeidner at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>  Seems like we have a lot of opinions here.  Here is a paper from ACM
>>> on the use of Python in for teaching programming.
>>>
>>>    http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=114017
>>
>>  sorry wrong link:  http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1140123.1140177
>>
>>       -jmz
>>
>>>
>>>  -jmz
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Austin William Wright
>>> <diamondmagic at users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>>>> Alan Dayley wrote:
>>>>> Python.
>>>>>
>>>> Absolutely NOT PYTHON. It breaks the first two rules of programming, the
>>>> assignment operator (=) assigns values to a variable, and always ignore
>>>> whitespace. Well my first two rules, at least. Plus it sucks at
>>>> consistent use of object-oriented programming.
>>>>
>>>> If you *really* need a general-purpose programming language, look at
>>>> Ruby, it's slightly more well behaved. Slightly. I would recommend
>>>> Javascript, it's a major programming language, and you can run it in
>>>> your web browser with literally nothing to install. Plus Javascript is
>>>> closely related to XML and HTML, while not programming languages, are
>>>> markup languages (a way of storing data) that is becoming very important
>>>> to know for many things. Though designed for the web, many of these
>>>> things are finding themselves become part of everyday computing,
>>>> especially XML. For these things, http://www.w3schools.com/ is popular.
>>>>
>>>> Any scripting language might be a good start at learning about
>>>> if/then/else logic, but none of these languages are going to teach how
>>>> computers really *process* or *store* information on the inside (how the
>>>> CPU executes the program or how variables are stored in memory), or for
>>>> that matter write an actual interactive computer program, you will need
>>>> a real language like C or C++. After learning something like Javascript
>>>> you will find C surprisingly limited in functionality if you try and do
>>>> things the same way, especially variable-length variables like strings
>>>> and arrays. Keep that fact in the back of your head for when, if, you
>>>> attempt C/C++.
>>>>
>>>> Whatever you do, Google "<x> tutorial" should bring up something good.
>>>> In the way of books, however, you can't miss ones from O'Reilly (
>>>> http://oreilly.com/ ), they are jade/teal and have a random animal on
>>>> the cover.
>>>>
>>>> Austin Wright.
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-- 
Sent from my mobile device

James Finstrom
Rhino Equipment Corp.
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