Sat Feb 20 20:13:18 MST 2010

 someone coming from a C background typically understands a lot more
about run-time performance than otherwise... -jmz

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 8:01 PM, keith smith <klsmith2020 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I'm old school and would suggest learning plain old C.  Then you can branch out to other languages.
>
> ------------------------
> Keith Smith
>
>
> --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Joshua Zeidner <jjzeidner at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Joshua Zeidner <jjzeidner at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re:
>> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
>> Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 7:34 PM
>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:27 PM,
>> Michael Havens <bmike1 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > website development seems like the only thing I would
>> want to do so Ruby it
>> > is!
>>
>>
>>    and that is the typical story with Ruby
>> developers...  ;)
>>
>>   -jmz
>>
>>
>> > Unfortunately, it isn't on my Ubuntuu install. When
>> I tried to start it
>> > it told me to apt-get it. No internet connection.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Joseph Sinclair
>> <plug-discussion at stcaz.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Let's not devolve into a favorite language war.
>>  There are situations
>> >> where Python is a great language choice, and
>> situations where it's terrible.
>> >> Every language choice comes down to what you want
>> to accomplish.
>> >>  Some languages are good for rapid development of
>> websites (Ruby, PHP,
>> >> etc...).
>> >>  Some languages are good for systems management
>> scripts (Python, Perl,
>> >> etc...).
>> >>  Some languages are good for developing large web
>> systems intended to be
>> >> maintained for years (Java, others).
>> >>  Some languages are good for developing packaged
>> COTS software (C++, Java,
>> >> etc...).
>> >>  Some languages are good for system software and
>> embedded devices (C, C++,
>> >> etc...).
>> >>  Many languages are most useful in very specific
>> niches (Forth, Lisp, ADA,
>> >> XSLT, LOLCode, Objective-C, etc...)
>> >>
>> >> Most languages have multiple areas where they work
>> well, and multiple
>> >> areas where they're not so good.
>> >> What exactly you want to accomplish in your
>> software development should
>> >> drive the language choice, although it rarely
>> does.
>> >>
>> >> No one particular language is the best choice for
>> learning how to write
>> >> software; each type of software development will
>> drive a different choice of
>> >> the best "first" language to learn.
>> >>
>> >> Mike, you need to specify your goal more precisely
>> in order for the
>> >> community here to give you a useful recommendation
>> that will help you best
>> >> accomplish that goal.
>> >>
>> >> ==Joseph++
>> >>
>> >> Kevin Fries wrote:
>> >> > Wow, now I know why it is so hard to hire
>> people that are competent!
>> >> >  Python is fun, not right, but fun... Thats
>> your argument?  If you want to
>> >> > know why we refuse to hire Python programmers
>> at our company, I can give you
>> >> > real facts on why you should not use that
>> language as a place to learn...
>> >> > Not opinions.
>> >> >
>> >> > Kevin
>> >> >
>> >> > Sent from my Nokia phone
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: Joshua Zeidner
>> >> > Sent:  02/20/2010 4:17:23 PM
>> >> > Subject:  Re:
>> >> >
>> >> > On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Joshua
>> Zeidner <jjzeidner at gmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>  Seems like we have a lot of opinions
>> here.  Here is a paper from ACM
>> >> >> on the use of Python in for teaching
>> programming.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>    http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=114017
>> >> >
>> >> >   sorry wrong link:
>> >> >  http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1140123.1140177
>> >> >
>> >> >        -jmz
>> >> >
>> >> >>  -jmz
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Austin
>> William Wright
>> >> >> <diamondmagic at users.sourceforge.net>
>> wrote:
>> >> >>> Alan Dayley wrote:
>> >> >>>> Python.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>> Absolutely NOT PYTHON. It breaks the
>> first two rules of programming,
>> >> >>> the
>> >> >>> assignment operator (=) assigns
>> values to a variable, and always
>> >> >>> ignore
>> >> >>> whitespace. Well my first two rules,
>> at least. Plus it sucks at
>> >> >>> consistent use of object-oriented
>> programming.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> If you *really* need a
>> general-purpose programming language, look at
>> >> >>> Ruby, it's slightly more well
>> behaved. Slightly. I would recommend
>> >> >>> Javascript, it's a major programming
>> language, and you can run it in
>> >> >>> your web browser with literally
>> nothing to install. Plus Javascript is
>> >> >>> closely related to XML and HTML,
>> while not programming languages, are
>> >> >>> markup languages (a way of storing
>> data) that is becoming very
>> >> >>> important
>> >> >>> to know for many things. Though
>> designed for the web, many of these
>> >> >>> things are finding themselves become
>> part of everyday computing,
>> >> >>> especially XML. For these things, http://www.w3schools.com/ is
>> >> >>> popular.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Any scripting language might be a
>> good start at learning about
>> >> >>> if/then/else logic, but none of these
>> languages are going to teach how
>> >> >>> computers really *process* or *store*
>> information on the inside (how
>> >> >>> the
>> >> >>> CPU executes the program or how
>> variables are stored in memory), or
>> >> >>> for
>> >> >>> that matter write an actual
>> interactive computer program, you will
>> >> >>> need
>> >> >>> a real language like C or C++. After
>> learning something like
>> >> >>> Javascript
>> >> >>> you will find C surprisingly limited
>> in functionality if you try and
>> >> >>> do
>> >> >>> things the same way, especially
>> variable-length variables like strings
>> >> >>> and arrays. Keep that fact in the
>> back of your head for when, if, you
>> >> >>> attempt C/C++.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Whatever you do, Google "<x>
>> tutorial" should bring up something good.
>> >> >>> In the way of books, however, you
>> can't miss ones from O'Reilly (
>> >> >>> http://oreilly.com/ ), they are jade/teal
>> and have a random animal on
>> >> >>> the cover.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Austin Wright.
>> >> >>>
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>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> http://home.joshuazeidner.com/
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > :-)~MIKE~(-:
>> >
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>>
>>
>>
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