OT: Plug Digest, Vol 62, Issue 31 - the unfixable problem.

Mon Aug 30 18:48:31 MST 2010

No, *BUT* government subsidies are a perfect example of how government uses
coercion to distort a free market. However, subsidies only distort the free
market, they don't (usually) prevent most market forces from affecting
transactions. In this case, the major government coercion taking place is
minimum wage laws, unemployment insurance laws, and now, more perverse
health insurance laws.

Note that none of these coercions can be enacted by corporations like
Walmart. Walmart can only duck and weave the maze of bureaucracy and hope to
come up in the black.

Eric

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 5:18 PM, keith smith <klsmith2020 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> With government subsidies in place do we have a truly free market?
>
> ------------------------
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On *Mon, 8/30/10, Eric Cope <eric.cope at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Eric Cope <eric.cope at gmail.com>
>
> Subject: Re: OT: Plug Digest, Vol 62, Issue 31 - the unfixable problem.
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 4:51 PM
>
>
> If I may, you can't exploit a worker in a free market. If a worker is free
> to seek other employment, then the employer can't exploit, they can only
> approach the line that each employee draws between what they are willing to
> do for employment and not.
>
> It is not possible to coerce a government. You can only persuade them and
> provide incentives for meeting demands.
>
> Eric
>
> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 4:12 PM, keith smith <klsmith2020 at yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=klsmith2020@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
>
> In a nutshell I think Wal-Mart is a cancer.  I do not agree with their
> business model nor do I agree with their tactics.  I think they hurt us much
> more than help us.  If that is a "hateful attitude", so be it.  I seem to
> stand alone in my opinion about Wal-Mart when amongst  conservatives.
>
> I do not advocate government intervention, I advocate good business and
> community principles.  Don't suck the wealth out of a community so you can
> be rich.
>
> The fault lies with the owners - the Waltons.  I think they are greedy and
> exploit their workers.
>
> It's one thing to create entry level jobs that give opportunity.  That is
> not what I see at Wal-Mart.  I see a dual cast society at work within the
> company.
>
> And they do coerce city and county government into giving them tax breaks.
> All they have to do is say "We can get a better deal in Gilbert and all your
> Chandler residents will be paying sales tax in Gilbert and you'll get none
> of that nice juicy sales tax revenue".  Or "We will build in the county
> because they are friendlier.....".
>
> You and I and the rest of the nation subsidize the wealth that the Waltons
> have acquired.
>
> Just because a leftist film maker makes a documentary, does not make it a
> lie.
>
> ------------------------
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On *Mon, 8/30/10, joe at actionline.com<http://mc/compose?to=joe@actionline.com>
> <joe at actionline.com <http://mc/compose?to=joe@actionline.com>>* wrote:
>
>
> From: joe at actionline.com <http://mc/compose?to=joe@actionline.com> <
> joe at actionline.com <http://mc/compose?to=joe@actionline.com>>
> Subject: Re: OT: Plug Digest, Vol 62, Issue 31 - the unfixable problem.
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us<http://mc/compose?to=plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> >
> Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 3:10 PM
>
>
>
> > I would say Wal-mart is a great example of true greed.
>
> Keith, I'm really sorry that you seem to have such a hateful attitude
> toward Walmart. I don't want to pick a fight with you my good friend,
> but I do feel it's important to clarify a couple things.
>
> You asserted:
> > They require tax cuts to build in your area
> > and they pay the lowest of low wages.
>
> Neither Walmart nor any other business can "require" or coerce any
> government, city, state, or federal to provide "tax cuts."
>
> It is common practice and not in the least bit unethical for any
> business or any other entity that brings jobs and economic activity to an
> area to seek incentives to move in to that area. No government is
> "required" to capitulate to providing such incentives.
>
> There is nothing wrong with any business offering whatever wage rates that
> they may choose to offer.  Walmart can not offer lower wages than the
> minimum wage and nobody is required to accept or stay in any job that
> Walmart or any other employer may offer.
>
> > They tell their employees to get government subsistence as part
> > of their model.
>
> I seriously question that Walmart "tells" their employees any such thing;
> however, the point is that Walmart (and every employer) has every right to
> decide whatever wage rates they want to offer, and nobody is "required" to
> accept any job that employer may offer.
>
> > Basically we subsidize their business model by supporting their
> > employees with section-8 housing, food stamps, and state funded
> > health care.
>
> That is not Walmart's fault.  It is unrealistic to blame Walmart for what
> the anti-American socialists among our elected representatives have
> contrived. Walmart did not do that, did not advocate that, and is not
> responsible for that.
>
> > I have no problem with the needy being helped however when it
> > becomes part of a business plan, I am against it.
>
> Do you really disagree with the notion that you (if you were an employer)
> or any other employer (including Walmart) should have the right to decide
> whatever wage rates that they want to offer? Nobody is holding a gun to a
> Walmart employment applicant's head coercing them to accept any job that
> Walmart may wish to offer. It is still a free country (so far).
>
> > People need to make a living wage.
>
> Do you really believe that employers should be coerced by our government
> to set wage rates that employers should be required to offer other than
> minimum wage?  Even setting a minimum wage is debatable.
>
> > And as they move up they should make a decent wage. In 2002 I worked
> > with a guy who had been a department manager at Wal-Mart and he left
> > Wal-Mart because he was only making $8/hr.
>
> So what? Good for him that he was free to leave.
>
> > Walmart is a cancer in my opinion.
>
> Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but what benefit is it and
> what does it accomplish to hate and berate the largest employer in the
> world because they have a successful business that provides more
> employment for more people than any other private sector entity in the
> world?
>
> You recommended:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiSmlmXp-aU&
>
> Robert Greenwald is just another anti-everything Michael Moore type -- a
> radical, liberal, elitist, left-wing extremist, socialist. It is very
> surprising to me that you of all people would be swayed by any of his
> one-sided drivel and distortions.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Greenwald
>
> Greenwald's approach has been to adapt guerrilla filmmaking to political
> documentaries ... in affiliation with politically sympathetic groups such
> as Moveon.org.
>
>
>
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