OT: Plug Digest, Vol 62, Issue 31 - the unfixable problem.

[keith smith]

I would say Wal-mart is a great example of true greed.  While they provide stuff at a low price they do so by gaming the system.  They require tax cuts to build in your area and they pay the lowest of low wages.  They tell their employees to get government subsistence as part of their model. 

Basically we subsidize their business model by supporting their employees with section-8 housing, food stamps, and state funded health care.  I have no problem with the needy being helped however when it becomes part of a business plan, I am against it.  People need to make a living wage. And as they move up they should make a decent wage.  In 2002 I worked with a guy who had been a department manager at Wal-Mart and he left Wal-Mart because he was only making $8/hr.  Yikes!!

Walmart is a cancer in my opinion.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiSmlmXp-aU&feature=player_embedded#!  This movie is available on NetFlix.

Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price2005NR97 minutesFilmmaker
 Robert Greenwald takes aim at the corporate giant that's come to 
symbolize big business in America -- Wal-Mart -- blasting the box-store 
Goliath for allegedly paying substandard wages, skimping on employee 
benefits and gutting communities. This hard-hitting, emotional 
documentary profiles the struggle of everyday folks from around the 
country who've committed themselves to fighting the mega-retailer.
And the Waltons claim to be Christian.  I think they forgot to read their Bible - it has become all about them.

I think CostCo is much better however they need to be watched because they are trying to be less employee oriented.   

------------------------

Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 8/30/10, joe at actionline.com <joe at actionline.com> wrote:

From: joe at actionline.com <joe at actionline.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Plug Digest, Vol 62, Issue 31 - the unfixable problem.
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 12:48 PM


Responses interspersed below:

> Its my current view that we all have desires that stem from greed

I don't think this is a correct observation.

Surely it is not a true statement that "we ... *all* ... have desires
that stem from greed"

There are enormous numbers of people who are assuredly *not* driven
by greed or who are even in the slightest tainted by greed.  Of course
many are consumed by greed; but many people, many professionals, and
even many profit-motivated businesses are assuredly *not* driven or
even in the smallest way motivated by greed.

Non-profit organizations are one example.

Medical "missionaries" and rescuers of many kinds to are quick to dash to
places like Katrina ravaged New Orleans, Haiti, Rwanda, and countless
other places are obviously not motivated by greed.

One excellent example (close to our hearts ;) is the whole GNU-Linux-FOSS
movement. Most individuals who give enormous amounts of time and effort
trying to continually improve everything about "G-L-F" are obviously not
motivated primarily by greed.

There are probably even a few (no doubt a pretty small percentage -
perhaps a tenth or hundredth of a percent ;) of lawyers who are not
motivated mainly by greed, but rather by a genuine desire to help people
in need.

On the other hand, it seems ever-more-increasingly clear that most of the
so-called "medical" profession and related hospital industry, like the
so-called legal (injustice) system, are motivated mainly by greed.

> the desire to offer our services for as high a price as possible
> AND to desire others' services for as low a prices as possible.

In the case of businesses and business services, there are many examples
in which owners and managers may be profit-motivated (not non-profits),
but who are sincerely endeavoring to deliver lower prices and lower costs
... and not merely driven by competitive pressures.  Rather, many are the
makers of competitive pressures when they do not necessarily need to.

Obviously, the petroleum industry is not one of those.

However (while some may start throwing rotten vegetables at me), Walmart
is an example of a business that is built on continuously working to
deliver the lowest possible prices.  Costco is another example where
pressing for the highest possible price that they can get away with is not
their motive. Interesting, too, that the CEO of Costco takes such a
relatively small salary.  But I digress.

> We can't wish these results, but must participate in the market
> to get as close to these desires as willing.

It's important to understand that the definition of greed necessarily
begins with the word "excessive" ... excessive consumption and/or
excessive desire for wealth, etc.

And that definition of greed is played out in the building of grandiose
hospital and medical facilities.  Recently we saw in the news about a huge
donation of many millions of dollars given to the Mayo clinic.  What a
wonderful action, and not one to be denigrated in any way ... however,
just think of how many small, modest clinics could have been built to
provide low-cost health-care for so many in desperate need rather than
building yet another grandiose edifice to be equipped with the most costly
and extravagant futuristic equipment where only the rich and famous can
afford to seek treatment.

> Coercion is the use of force (noun) to force (verb) you to participate in
> a market you are unwilling to participate freely, either through paying
> higher prices that you would normally, or through receiving a lower price
> for our own service.

While I certainly agree with this observation, it addresses something
different than the greed that seems to be what is driving the medical and
hospital industry.

> The former requires mutual benefit for a transaction to take place. The
> latter does not, in fact, it rarely benefits more than one party involved.

I'm just not sure how to connect this last statement with the issue of
greed as (what I believe to be) the driving force for the outrageous costs
for so-called "health care" in this country.  I don't see how coercion is
driving up the costs, more-so than simply sheer greed.



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