Certifications as a means of gaining knowlage

Sun Jun 28 19:01:01 MST 2009

I just realized that when I first sent this my phone didn't reply to the
list. Sorry David for the multiple copies.

Hi all I have just been a list voyeur for awhile. I was wondering if others
are pursuing any Linux certifications now and if there are any study groups
-classes going that you may know of. Thanks.

I also have collected over the years some certs from Novell, Cisco, sans,
M$.... It has cost a ton but I think that it has been worth it by getting me
interviews and jobs. Now I want to focus on Linux and security more.

 I think employers also see a certification as your potential to follow
through with what you start and a basic understanding like David said.

Enough of my rambling. Thanks.

-Larry

Sent from my BlackBerryR smartphone with SprintSpeed

From: plug-discuss-bounces at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
[mailto:plug-discuss-bounces at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of David
Munson
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:15 PM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: Certifications as a means of gaining knowlage

Certifications can be useful for getting your foot in the door when you may
not have the experience yet. Granted, most certifications say you should
have X amount of time doing Y type of work, but I had very little experience
with the subject matter when I passed the A+ and Network+ certifications.
When I go after a certification, it's because I'm looking to get a handle on
the basics for jobs related to it, and because it's something to point to
when I talk to HR about my qualifications.

Additionally, certifications SUGGEST that you have a certain level of
knowledge about a set of topics. I can spend six months doing network
support work and never learn a thing about fiber if I'm at a small business,
but a Network+ certification SUGGESTS that I at least know the difference
between SC and MTRJ connectors, as well as single-mode and multimode fiber.

To put it in fewer words, certifications are good for covering the basics of
a subject, and might get you an interview, but it's the actual experience
that'll probably land you the job.

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Bryan O'Neal <boneal at cornerstonehome.com>
wrote:

I too do not believe certifications are worth much. With the exception of a
selling point to customers who don't know better or to help lower your
insurance premiums.  That said they CAN be a good path to focus your
learning and gain knowledge however that knowledge is not usually worth more
then a few months of intensive on the job training.

On a side note I am mojor pet peve, in that I hate companies that requier
certain certifications for emplyment... If I were to colect ever cert I have
seen "requierd" for job I was otherwise well qualified for I would have to
spend about two years and about $100K to obtain them. At which point I could
get a few years of use and then have to repeat the process ;)

If you want your people to have a prticuler cert you higher the person and
make continued employment contengent on getting the cert. 

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 6:49 AM, Lisa Kachold <lisakachold at obnosis.com>
wrote:

On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Steve Phariss <sphariss at gmail.com> wrote:

Question to the group.

I know that certificates in and of themselves are not a good indicator of
skill.  But are they a worthwhile goal for knowlege sake?  In particular, I
have been faced with a couple jobs that required Vertualization skills.  I
have very little enterprise experience with vertulization so was concidering
taking a bootcamp course that concludes with a vertulization cert (Certified
Virtualization ExpertT -CVET) 

Does anyone have any experience with the CVE or Bootcamp classes in general?

Steve

In the old days, we had what were considered "academics".  These were the
people who could stand around and spout a million useless details about
technology, but in the actual trenches, had no if/then/therefore logical
skills.  They were like autistics, in that they could memorize rote, but it
often seemed as if the people who actually could excel at the times when
someone had to pull raw intelligence and creativity out of a hat, they
failed horribly.

The people who actually had to work in the fields often found the
certifications to be far from what was required to actually master a subject
- epic fail for those selling technology or selling management that
certifications were actually a good gauge of mastery.  

So, what started to happen was people who actually were deeply immersed in
technology started to attend bootcamps which were given often during a
convention, where a full immersal of the student into the subject matter's
pure "academics" would occur, whereupon all the useless facts that are never
used when implementing and maintaining the technology get retained just long
enough to pass the certification.  In this way, everyone could give a Class
A subnet answer (even in the days when everyone only used Class C
subnetting) for instance for a Cisco CCNA (which I obtained in 1999).

I certified in IBM High Speed Networking Technology in the 1980's at USBank,
and it was a complete exercise in rote memorization.   I certified on
Websphere V in 2006, and nothing had really changed; little on the test
actually translated to being able to manage application servers in any real
world shop.

I doubt very much this has changed with regard to Virtualization quizzes -
except that Linux certifications are generally excellent (especially the
RHCE - which is a complete PRACTICAL test, no reference materials are
allowed, and the student must master the subject on a virtual slice or real
machine during the test).  A RHCE is sold to businesses as a way to get a
cheaper rate on their RHEL licenses.  I was hired in a contract gig to build
new application servers (8 Prod/Dev + 1 database all Dell 1950's 2850's) and
clean up Apache security and little Linux issues while they sent their
Microsoft staff to RHCE Fast Track school (Choicehotels.com):  

http://www.supershareware.com/info/whizlabs-rhce--red-hat-linux-certificatio
n--exam-simulator.html
http://www.scribd.com/doc/16314048/RHCE-Red-Hat-Certified-Engineer-Linux-100
-Success-Secrets-on-RHCE-Linux-Test-Preparation-Study-Guides-Practice-Exams-
Braindumps-Certification-Exa
https://www.redhat.com/certification/rhce/?s_kwcid=TC|3636|rhce||S|p|3282576
651
<https://www.redhat.com/certification/rhce/?s_kwcid=TC%7C3636%7Crhce%7C%7CS%
7Cp%7C3282576651> 
www.linuxlearningcentre.com/content/prepguide.pdf

The RHCE fast track (5 day type of bootcamp) is the best way to certify as
well because Linux people generally don't require a 3 month class, and
simply get in and do things quickly to grasp a course:
https://www.redhat.com/courses/rh300_rhce_rapid_track_course_and_rhce_exam/

Certifications have been critisized for being "marketing manipulation"
rather than actual gauges of skill.  For instance, a company will sell
certifications when a product is big, and require certifications for cheaper
rates.  

But if you don't already have a good history with certifications and your
goal is simply to get a grasp of the technology, a certification is suspect,
as a solution.

Currently virtualization providers are fighting it out over a "new hot
market".  And the technology is relatively young (unless you are IBM).  So,
Microsoft, XEN and Vmware --- you get the idea from the "Products of the
Year 2008":

GOLD AWARD:

VMware ESXi 3.5 U2
<http://searchservervirtualization.techtarget.com/productsOfTheYearWinner/0,
296407,sid94_gci1345772_tax312925_ayr2008,00.html>  
VMware's free ESXi leads the virtualization platform market by continuing to
offer the greatest functionality and highest value of all hypervisors
available on today's market. 
READ MORE
<http://searchservervirtualization.techtarget.com/productsOfTheYearWinner/0,
296407,sid94_gci1345772_tax312925_ayr2008,00.html> 

SILVER AWARD:

Microsoft Hyper-V 1.0
<http://searchservervirtualization.techtarget.com/productsOfTheYearWinner/0,
296407,sid94_gci1345773_tax312925_ayr2008,00.html>  
"Microsoft's standalone Hyper-V is a great option for a free hypervisor,"
one judge wrote. "I give Microsoft a lot of credit for such a strong new
showing." 
READ MORE
<http://searchservervirtualization.techtarget.com/productsOfTheYearWinner/0,
296407,sid94_gci1345773_tax312925_ayr2008,00.html> 

BRONZE AWARD:

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5.2
<http://searchservervirtualization.techtarget.com/productsOfTheYearWinner/0,
296407,sid94_gci1345774_tax312925_ayr2008,00.html>  
If Linux is your bag, then the Xen-based virtualization bundled with Red
Hat's enterprise offering is a high-performance virtualization option and
excellent value, judges reported. 
READ MORE
<http://searchservervirtualization.techtarget.com/productsOfTheYearWinner/0,
296407,sid94_gci1345774_tax312925_ayr2008,00.html> 

I would get a general linux certification before I would get a
virtualization certification. 

And since you are asking, I would point you to the RHCE.

(503)754-4452 wiki.obnosis.com
scientology.obnosis.com

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