Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX

[Lyle Tuttle]

The city of Surprise has moved into a new city hall complex, and are 
turning the old offices / building into a "start-up" or incubator for 
new or emerging businesses.

lyle tuttle

At 07:50 PM 8/1/2009, you wrote:
>On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 6:50 PM, keith smith<klsmith2020 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think what is really missing from this equation is mentoring 
> and training.
>
>   what I would like to see is some real support from AZ government to
>help make tech companies feel welcome here.  This means:
>
>   1) making the valley a good place not only to build a company but to
>build a *career*.  this means buy in from both sides of the equation.
>I would like to see a bit more address at lower capital levels, but
>that may prove to be difficult.  It seems that most existing concepts
>are kind of stuck in the industrial model, where you build a factory
>in a place with low taxes and hire low wage workers, but technology
>requires high wage workers who demand a good thriving job market.  The
>needs are quite different.  The biggest issue with starting a company
>out here is finding people.  Where are all the people?  in CA.
>because it has a good job market.  If we can outsource to India, we
>sure as hell can outsource to Arizona.
>
>   2) setting up low cost legal structure and as you say mentoring to
>really help stimulate technology development.  We've seen (at least
>nominal) efforts in the past.  Why did they fail?  This means real and
>adequate assistance in bringing concepts to production and market.  A
>small investment in this area will yield returns in tax base and
>property value by a factor of hundreds.  Arizona has the potential to
>pick up a lot of this commercial activity because California is
>currently set to become a tax strapped nightmare state to build your
>business.  If AZ fails to see the opportunity here, we will lose out
>big time.  Currently the budget proceedings are still in gridlock.
>
>   the mayor of Phoenix seems to have the right idea, he was suggesting
>recently a green technology center near Phx center.  I think thats the
>direction AZ needs to go.  -jmz
>
> >
> > I like the idea that folks are getting together to network.  This 
> is a really cool idea.  Even for non-technical stuff like finding 
> out how people deal with customers, contracting, book-keeping, ETC.
> >
> > ------------------------
> > Keith Smith
> >
> >
> > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Joshua Zeidner <jjzeidner at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Joshua Zeidner <jjzeidner at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX
> >> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> >> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 6:08 PM
> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:09 PM,
> >> Alan Dayley<alandd at consultpros.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Joshua,
> >> >
> >> > I put all your replies together in one long document
> >> and reread them.
> >> > I am still confused a bit.  Enlightenment via email
> >> rarely occurs.
> >> > However, I really want to understand your position in
> >> this discussion.
> >> >  Let me summarize what I understand from your
> >> replies.
> >> >
> >> > ---[Start my paraphasing of your comments]---
> >> >
> >> > - There is a small group or groups of people who keep
> >> spinning off
> >> > communities using tired marketing techniques.  This
> >> results in blogs
> >> > but not true communities.
> >> >
> >> > - Some of these people cannot deal with existing
> >> structure and the
> >> > efforts of the past.
> >> >
> >> > - These weak attempts do not articulate goals or
> >> purpose well, if at all.
> >> >
> >> > - We must honestly look at criticism to learn and
> >> improve.
> >> >
> >> > - These weak people need to address the efforts of the
> >> past and
> >> > provide suggestions on how they can be improved upon.
> >> >
> >> > - Getting political support will provide legitimacy to
> >> their efforts.
> >> >
> >> > - Phoenix will attract technology businesses because
> >> of the relative
> >> > low cost and this will help improve things.
> >> >
> >> > - You have first hand experiences of weak, marketing
> >> fronted,
> >> > community building efforts.
> >> >
> >> > - Many 'entrepreneurs' have grand ideas but get
> >> nowhere with them
> >> > because they are not real businesses.
> >> >
> >> > - People at a co-working location or coffee shop will
> >> not help you
> >> > with your business unless you pay them.
> >> >
> >> > - Most people at co-working started their one person
> >> business after
> >> > being laid-off and are not serious about it.  They
> >> are really just
> >> > looking for the next full time gig.  This will get in
> >> your way if you
> >> > have real business work to do.
> >> >
> >> > - We must look truthfully at this issue if we are to
> >> make progress.
> >> >
> >> > - There are no serious incubators and entrepreneurial
> >> meetups in
> >> > Phoenix.  No announcements on VC funding of companies
> >> so it's not
> >> > really entrepreneurial growth.
> >> >
> >> > ---[End my paraphrasing of your comments]---
> >> >
> >> > I see validity in every one of these comments.  I
> >> also think many of
> >> > them can be balanced by the other point of view.  I
> >> still have
> >> > questions, if I may ask, before I state too much of my
> >> own thinking.
> >> > I want to learn more about your thinking.
> >> >
> >> > 1. What does "deal with existing structure" mean?
> >>  This confuses me,
> >> > not know what structure you are talking about.
> >>
> >>   Many user groups have been formed and continue to
> >> exist... how is
> >> <groupX> different?  other than its led by
> >> person Y?  I mean dealing
> >> with some of these groups I feel like Im back to age 8
> >> trying to gain
> >> admittance into the neighborhood treehouse.  Perhaps I
> >> should spend
> >> more time drinking beer with these people?  Seeing the
> >> same small
> >> group churning out 'communities' is at first funny, then
> >> annoying.  I
> >> just see a real lack of serious intent, and unless that is
> >> noted
> >> publicly, it makes all of us look bad.  I really dont
> >> think Im being
> >> destructive or malicious here, Im pointing out some valid
> >> observations.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > 2. To what efforts of the past are you referring?  I
> >> want to
> >> > understand the size and nature of efforts to creating
> >> a community that
> >> > you feel were legitimate but perhaps did not work as
> >> planned.
> >>
> >>   I remember when I first came to AZ that there was an
> >> tech
> >> incubator...  what happened to it?  Which
> >> political agents currently
> >> support technology development in the valley?  what do
> >> they think
> >> about your org?  these things are pretty basic...
> >>
> >> >
> >> > 3. What political support is needed?  You mean
> >> government funding of
> >> > events or startups or just verbal support or what?
> >>
> >>   I wouldn't expect funding, but it would be good to
> >> see some
> >> political buy in.  Lack of just supports my opinions,
> >> that its really
> >> as Lisa said, camouflage for poor organization.
> >> Without any good
> >> signposts, all this will produce are people who get jaded
> >> and
> >> disaffected with regards to this location.  If you had
> >> something
> >> together I doubt that a good politician would turn you
> >> down.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > 4. Why is it wrong or a problem for someone who is
> >> laid-off to have
> >> > grand ideas, talk about them and they never come to
> >> be?
> >>
> >>   Its not.  As I said, I don't find any of these
> >> things highly
> >> offensive- but like you I am free to express myself.
> >> Sorry if its not
> >> filled with abundant exaltations.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > 5. Is it not conceivable that people might help each
> >> other in business
> >> > efforts?  Isn't strengthening and creating such a
> >> culture a good idea
> >> > or should such a goal not be pursued because it is not
> >> practically
> >> > possible?
> >>
> >>   sure.  good thread btw.  -jmz
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Alan
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Joshua Zeidner<jjzeidner at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> another great one:
> >> >>
> >> >> "OK, my question stands. Where are the incubators,
> >> the "bootstrap"
> >> >> seminars, the serious entrepreneurial meetups in
> >> Phoenix??? (crickets
> >> >> chirping). Phoenix just ain't happening as a
> >> serious place where
> >> >> serious people are doing serious things. No one
> >> wants it badly enough
> >> >> here. This paper should be having at least one
> >> article a week on a new
> >> >> startup and the VC firm who funded it.
> >> Helloooo????? is anybody out
> >> >> there...."
> >> >>
> >> >> a better way to phrase this: we need to stop
> >> pretending these
> >> >> whimsical efforts churned out by local
> >> self-employed marketing experts
> >> >> are sufficient.  They are not.  We should be
> >> asking the hard
> >> >> questions, not playing games.
> >> >>
> >> >> -jmz
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Joshua
> >> Zeidner<jjzeidner at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>>  another point, honestly reading through some
> >> of the criticisms on
> >> >>> azcentral and being of the cafe dwelling creed
> >> myself, I'd have to say
> >> >>> that many of those points are accurate.  I've
> >> heard lots of
> >> >>> 'entrepreneurs' with big ideas around here who
> >> never get anywhere with
> >> >>> them.  Sorry, but a word press template
> >> doesn't make you an
> >> >>> entrepreneur.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>  "These are the same people you see at
> >> Starbucks, Boarders or any
> >> >>> other wi-fi hot spot, they are not
> >> entrepreneurs they are attention
> >> >>> (inappropriate term)."
> >> >>>
> >> >>>  "Many of the Co-Worker location founders
> >> tout other people to
> >> >>> collaborate with and who can "compensate for
> >> your deficiencies". Do
> >> >>> you really believe someone that you are not
> >> paying as an employee is
> >> >>> going to somehow compensate for your
> >> deficiencies and make your
> >> >>> business better? That kind of help doesn't
> >> come without a price."
> >> >>>
> >> >>>  oh so true...
> >> >>>
> >> >>>  "You are more likely to get a bunch of
> >> people chatting to you over
> >> >>> your "work" so you wont be concentrating as
> >> you should to focus on
> >> >>> your business. Most of these people started
> >> businesses after being
> >> >>> laid off. They are searching for a new job and
> >> they aren't really
> >> >>> serious about their "businesses" so how do you
> >> expect them to give you
> >> >>> valuable, serious advice. Are these the kind
> >> of people you need to
> >> >>> compensate for your deficiencies? A bunch of
> >> people half-as running
> >> >>> their "business" while searching for a real
> >> job and bothering you with
> >> >>> their expertise that got them laid off in the
> >> first place."
> >> >>>
> >> >>>  oh so so true...
> >> >>>
> >> >>>  I would be willing to bet the commenter
> >> above is an tried and true
> >> >>> successful entrepreneur.  Perhaps the reason
> >> I am so skeptical is
> >> >>> because I know these kind of people so well.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>  sorry I really wish I could be more
> >> supportive... but :  truth is
> >> >>> the foundation of progress.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>  -jmz
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Joshua
> >> Zeidner<jjzeidner at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>>>  Alan,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>    Wish I had time to respond to all
> >> these points right now, not sure
> >> >>>> you read me the way I would prefer
> >> however.  Its not so grave a
> >> >>>> warning, just getting the word out on my
> >> first hand experiences.  Im
> >> >>>> just one of many- but hopefully an
> >> impartial observer and someone
> >> >>>> genuinely concerned for AZ.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>  all the best, jmz
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Alan
> >> Dayley<alandd at consultpros.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>>>> Josh,
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> I feel warned.  And I don't
> >> understand the reason for such a strong warning.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> There are people in every industry,
> >> government or community who wish
> >> >>>>> to fleece their "community" for their
> >> own profit instead of mutual
> >> >>>>> benefit.  The trick is to find the
> >> positive people and ignore the
> >> >>>>> rest.  Apply the same filter with
> >> every event, group or blogger in the
> >> >>>>> lists and links I provided.  I don't
> >> expect bloggers or techies to be
> >> >>>>> any different, as if being techie
> >> makes one a saint.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Some of those bloggers are purely
> >> commercial or completely neglected,
> >> >>>>> I'm sure.  Some of the groups or
> >> events or sites listed are lousy,
> >> >>>>> boring or poor marketing excuses to
> >> sell something.  Some are not out
> >> >>>>> to create community but to build a
> >> "kingdom" for their own benefit.
> >> >>>>> They are the duds.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Let's look at a few positives:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - Read the Gangplank Manifesto on
> >> their home page at
> >> >>>>> http://gangplankhq.com.  That looks like
> >> a great articulation of their
> >> >>>>> goals and purpose.  Ones I strongly
> >> support!
> >> >>>>> -- Read how the manifesto came to be
> >> on Derek's blog at
> >> >>>>> 
> http://derekneighbors.com/2009/07/collaborative-writing-or-how-the-gangplank-manifesto-was-written/
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - Gangplank has hosted or is hosting:
> >> >>>>> -- MobiFest - a day long conference on
> >> developing for phones like
> >> >>>>> iPhone or Android
> >> >>>>> -- Gangplank Jr. - a 2-3 hour Saturday
> >> event for kids 5-15 to learn
> >> >>>>> programming concepts
> >> >>>>> -- Wordpress training classes for
> >> minimal cost or no-cost for non-profit orgs
> >> >>>>> -- Laid Off Camp - a day long
> >> conference on job searching and entreprenuership
> >> >>>>> -- Barcamp Pheonix - a day long
> >> conference on software development
> >> >>>>> -- TEDx night - Watch ted.com videos
> >> and discuss them
> >> >>>>> -- OpenPhoenix - a night of open mic
> >> music and entertainment
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - The last http://desertcodecamp.com/ was held on June 13th and
> >> nearly
> >> >>>>> filled DeVry's Phoenix campus with
> >> developers talking about code or
> >> >>>>> making code.  Free lunch of pizza and
> >> sub sandwiches was provided too.
> >> >>>>>  Put together by volunteers.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - If you're into Microsoft based
> >> development tech, the people who
> >> >>>>> maintain the http://azgroups.com site do an annual all-day event at
> >> >>>>> venues like the Orphium Theater and at
> >> no cost to attendees.  Fine,
> >> >>>>> it's marketing for MS but it's put on
> >> by volunteers here in the valley
> >> >>>>> and a great way for people to learn
> >> about things that improve their
> >> >>>>> career skills.
> >> >>>>> 
> (http://www.componentart.com/BLOGS/milos/archive/2009/06/02/scott-guthrie-event-2009-phoenix-az.aspx)
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - The local Ruby On Rails group has
> >> monthly meetings with around 30
> >> >>>>> regularly in attendance.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - The Java group is also well attended
> >> every month.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - The third http://podcampaz.com/ is coming up in November, put on
> >> by
> >> >>>>> voluteers at no cost (donation
> >> requested) to attendees.  Had about 350
> >> >>>>> people attend last year (if I recall)
> >> for two days of conference.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - The http://azentrepreneurship.com/ conference will be in
> >> November
> >> >>>>> for the forth year.  This one costs
> >> $100+ but should be as well
> >> >>>>> attended as last year with 200+
> >> people.  Funded and organized in part
> >> >>>>> by a local venture capital group.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - The first http://ignitephoenix.com event was held a year ago with
> >> a
> >> >>>>> little over 100 in attendance and has
> >> grown to fill the 600 seat
> >> >>>>> Theather at Tempe Center for the Arts
> >> back in June.  The connections
> >> >>>>> made there live well past the event.
> >> >>>>> -- Oh, a city council member and the
> >> mayor of Tempe spoke this last
> >> >>>>> time, though he was a bit silly trying
> >> to be Tempe exclusive.  That
> >> >>>>> seems to be at least verbal political
> >> support.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - The second ABLEConf on FS/OSS is
> >> being planned for October and
> >> >>>>> should be better than last year. (Go
> >> Hans and team!)
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> I'm not going to go on, though I could
> >> point out several purely social
> >> >>>>> events like http://phoenixfridaynights.com/, it's east and west
> >> valley
> >> >>>>> analogs, East Valley Thursday Morning
> >> breakfasts, Tempe Geeks Lunch,
> >> >>>>> South Valley Geek Meet and Eat and
> >> Gangplank's Brown Gag lunch
> >> >>>>> presentations every Wednesday.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Now, having said all of that "giddy
> >> blind optimism," I'd like to
> >> >>>>> understand how the above does not
> >> address the efforts of the past or
> >> >>>>> provide improvement over past efforts.
> >>  What are the real needs of the
> >> >>>>> community, if not some of the above?
> >>  What would you suggest?  How can
> >> >>>>> PLUG be a part of it?
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Alan
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:34 PM,
> >> Joshua Zeidner<jjzeidner at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>  Alan,
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>    while I appreciate your post,
> >> and anyone who is making a sincere
> >> >>>>>> effort to build community in
> >> Phoenix... be warned.  There are some
> >> >>>>>> small groups who periodically
> >> spawn off new 'communities' every month
> >> >>>>>> or so.  Look closely and you see
> >> the same few people with reused
> >> >>>>>> marketing recipes.  Lots of blog
> >> and not too much community I'm
> >> >>>>>> afraid.  Their efforts amount to
> >> some simple branding and putting up a
> >> >>>>>> blog.  While these things are not
> >> really particularily offensive to
> >> >>>>>> me, they do somewhat detract from
> >> interest in the real needs of the
> >> >>>>>> community here.  Some of these
> >> people are just outright idiotic and
> >> >>>>>> cannot deal with existing
> >> structure and refuse to accept the history
> >> >>>>>> of efforts in the past.  They
> >> lack any articulation of their goals and
> >> >>>>>> purpose.  Often times they have
> >> trouble organizing even small groups
> >> >>>>>> of 2 or 3.  Dont forget we've had
> >> a tech incubator here.  Lets not
> >> >>>>>> smack down sincere criticism in
> >> favor of giddy blind optimism,
> >> >>>>>> remember you can't improve without
> >> criticism.  I would take these
> >> >>>>>> people much more seriously if they
> >> addressed the efforts of the past
> >> >>>>>> and perhaps suggested how they are
> >> going to improve on them, or
> >> >>>>>> perhaps indicate what has changed
> >> that will make them a success.
> >> >>>>>> Maybe seeking real political
> >> support would gain some legitimacy.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>    on the positive side, I think
> >> Phoenix will attract a lot of
> >> >>>>>> technology business due to its
> >> relative low cost and no doubt you will
> >> >>>>>> start to see community
> >> infrastructure grow.  We are seeing some real
> >> >>>>>> urban development happening in Phx
> >> metro which has me very excited.  I
> >> >>>>>> think when the macroeconomic
> >> problems are sorted out we will see
> >> >>>>>> downtown Phx bloom.  Im hoping
> >> that the average Arizonan gets involved
> >> >>>>>> in the political process and make
> >> sure that the corruption stays out
> >> >>>>>> of city and state politics.
> >>  Coming from NY, Im recognizing a lot of
> >> >>>>>> positive development trends in Phx
> >> metro.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>  -jmz
> >> >>>>>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >> >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> >> >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to
> >> change your mail settings:
> >> >>>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail
> >> settings:
> >> >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >> >>
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
> >> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail
> >> settings:
> >> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >> >
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail
> >> settings:
> >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >
>---------------------------------------------------
>PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/pipermail/plug-discuss/attachments/20090801/abf38618/attachment.htm