lawyer Ira Schwartz, Nov. 19, 1996 memories, etc. (was: Re: [...] RIAA document)

[Craig White]

Why not ask the same Ira Schwartz who evidently has done user group
meetings before but I would definitely not mention the concept of
'grilling' him.

Yes, it was a jab at Microsoft for disabling current versions ability to
read older data files and also a jab at Microsoft because they feel that
they have a patent in their pocket that covers other products from
reading proprietary Microsoft formats but that is absurd because laches
(I think is how it is spelled), would certainly apply (they failed to
pursue their infringement claims for too long). IANAL as everyone should
now realize.

Craig

On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 19:11 -0700, Bryan O'Neal wrote:
> Sorry for the non inline comment:
> I believe Craig's comment about the file format was both a jab to MS for
> not intentionally alienating prior formats and regularly attempting to
> show that reading those formats with a non MS product is a violation of
> the MS patent on that format or it specific use of that format.  But
> patents are so much harder to defend then copyrights, or such is my
> understanding.  Any one know a good copyright / patent lawyer we could
> convince to speak at a meeting and then grill him/her for many hours
> afterwards?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: plug-discuss-bounces at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> [mailto:plug-discuss-bounces at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Mike
> Schwartz
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 6:41 PM
> To: Craig White
> Cc: PLUG-discuss mailing list; Mike L Schwartz
> Subject: Re: lawyer Ira Schwartz, Nov. 19, 1996 memories,etc. (was: Re:
> [...] RIAA document)
> 
> On Jan 6, 2008 12:31 PM, Craig White <craigwhite at azapple.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 2008-01-06 at 11:32 -0700, Mike Schwartz wrote:
> > > On 1/6/08, Craig White <craigwhite at azapple.com> wrote:
> > > > [...snip...] According to Roy
> > > > Beckerman, lawyer defending several RIAA targets, this is no
> accident
> > > > but rather the deliberate attempt by plaintiff (RIAA) to establish
> > > > precedent and thereby codify their view of fair use.
> > > >
> > > > Craig
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------
> > > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - [...]
> > >
> > > "So far", this has been a very interesting thread.
> > > I haven't followed (read) "all" of the links to outside interesting
> web pages,
> > > but I did check out
> > >
> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=401886&threshold=0&commentsort=5&mod
> e=flat&cid=21859278
> > > a little bit, and it has a link to
> > >
> http://web.archive.org/web/20070516072606/http://www.riaa.com/issues/ask
> /default.asp
> > > which I found very interesting.
> > >    HOWEVER, the main reason I am writing now, is that I noticed
> > > that der.hans picked up on something about the lawyer Ira Schwartz.
> > > (**NOTE**: no relation to me, as far as I know).
> > >    It's just that, a lawyer named Ira M. Schwartz (probably the same
> guy)
> > > came and spoke to the Phoenix Chapter ACM (which I was the treasurer
> > > of "at the time) on Tues., Nov. 19, 1996.   (The meeting was also
> jointly
> > > sponsored by the Phoenix Chapter of the IEEE Computer Society, and
> > > I think also a SPIN group too). Ira Schwartz had been invited to
> speak by
> > > the chairperson of the chapter, Tony Rizzo.  The topic of his talk
> was
> > >     "Software and the law"
> > > and the meeting was held at DeVry [2149 W Dunlap] and I can tell
> > > you (I was there) that the presentation was very interesting.  I
> would even
> > > say, fascinating.  Also, the speaker seemed to be knowledgeable and
> > > sorta "able to see both sides" on a very wide range of issues.  Many
> of the
> > > issues he mentioned seemed to me, to be of the kind that strikes one
> as,
> > > "hey, that is really interesting, I haven't really thought about /
> realized some
> > > of that before, (but I probably should have!)".
> > >      A few days ago (probably 01Jan2008) I e-mailed Tony, to ask him
> whether
> > > this lawyer (mentioned in this case) was the same guy.  I still have
> some
> > > copies (paper) of the Newsletter that was mailed out announcing the
> meeting,
> > > [hence the amount of specific details included above, way more than
> > >    my "off hand" recollection would have probably been limited to]
> > > and it says that, at the time, Ira M. Schwartz was
> > >      << "the managing attorney for Schwartz & Associates,
> > >             which emphasizes intellectual property law.
> > >             [...]  Schwartz is [1996] a frequent lecturer on
> copyright
> > >             and computer law topics, [...]" >>.
> > > I may also have at least one electronic copy of that newsletter
> (probably in
> > > an MS-word format "older than Word 97!") lying around somewhere...
> > > -- I'd have to check, and so far I am too lazy --
> > > so that will have to remain a definite "maybe".
> > >      Per his prompt e-mail reply, Tony Rizzo apparently hasn't kept
> in touch
> > > with that lawyer / speaker (and - hey - it has been over 11 years),
> so he was
> > > not sure whether this (the lawyer mentioned in this thread) is the
> same guy.
> > > But I think he was local (living somewhere in the valley) at least,
> at
> > > that time
> > > [1996] so I think it is probably the same lawyer.
> > >     Just thought this was interesting...
> > > (even though - as far as I know - this lawyer Ira Schwartz is no
> > > relation to me).
> > ----
> > #1 - I previously provided links to the slashdot article about the
> 'old'
> > archived RIAA statements about fair use. That link however, is not the
> > position of the RIAA today.
> >
> > #2 - It's clear that your Ira Schwartz and the attorney for the
> > plaintiff RIAA v. Howell are one and the
> > same...http://www.deconcinimcdonald.com/attorneys/schwartz.html
> >
> > #3 - Clearly you weren't using an up to date version of Microsoft Word
> > 2003 or Word 2007 to open that old document because you would have
> been
> > prevented from doing that (sanitized for your protection). I hope that
> > you didn't violate Microsoft's intellectual property by using a
> > non-Microsoft program to open that file.
> >
> > Next time you run into Ira, you might want to inquire if he sleeps
> well
> > at night knowing that he earns his living by beating up citizens that
> > can't afford representation. At least in this instance, it was neither
> > an old lady nor a young kid but it appears that he did RIAA proud and
> > would likely get more opportunities to build on this distinguished
> > activity.
> >
> > Good to know that he isn't a relative but I recognize that all
> families
> > have their 'black sheep' - First hand proof that you can steal more
> > money with a pen than with a gun.
> >
> > Craig
> 
> Thanks, Craig, for your comments.
> Here are some replies in response to some of them:
> 
> > Clearly you weren't using an up to date version of Microsoft Word
> > 2003 or Word 2007 to open that old document [...]
> 
> The copies of the old newsletter that I did read, (the ones I have found
> so far)
> are paper copies.  Not electronic.  Obviously some Hex editors can read
> any file that has bits in it - - an I might seriously consider doing so,
> if I
> find an old file that pre-dates "Word 97".
> Actually, now that I think about it, any program (such as OOo or
> Wordpad)
> that can read a *.rtf file, can probably read the old "Word 6.0"
> format...
> Hmmm... I might have to re-name the file [to  a *.rtf name];  but that
> is
> speculation / future tense, since I may not be able to find the old
> file.
> 
> > [...]  if he sleeps well at night [...]
> 
> Good one.
> ((maybe there is a course in law school that covers sleeping well...))
> 
> >  all families have their 'black sheep' - [...]
> 
> TRUE!  And in this case PUNNY too (since "schwartz" [spelled
>    without the "t" in German, because in German a "z" is always
>    pronounced as a "tz" sound even without the "t") means "black".
>    [der.hans could probably elaborate better than I could...]
> 
> > Next time you run into Ira, [...]
> 
> Not too often.  Even Tony Rizzo has not kept in touch with Ira.