PLUG netiquette (was trolls flamefest)

Wed Aug 29 21:33:56 MST 2007

There is a difference between flame, disagreement, discussion and love.
 Only flame is outside of a community and disagreement is not always
unproductive.

I did not see any of the below as a flame.  Discussion, surely and
disagreement, perhaps, but no flames.

Alan

Tuna wrote:
> Why must we flame? Where is the love? The community?
> 
> Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 8/29/07, *Alan Dayley* <alandd at consultpros.com
>> <mailto:alandd at consultpros.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>>      >
>>      >
>>      > On 8/29/07, *keith smith* <klsmith2020 at yahoo.com
>>     <mailto:klsmith2020 at yahoo.com>
>>      > <mailto:klsmith2020 at yahoo.com <mailto:klsmith2020 at yahoo.com> >>
>>     wrote:
>>      >
>>      >
>>      >     Add PLUG reserves the right to suspend or remove any account
>>     not in
>>      >     compliance.
>>      >
>>      >
>>      >
>>      >   And for my reference, WHO is PLUG?
>>
>>     Straight to the point.  WE are PLUG.
>>
>>     There is a Steering Committee with a chair person but, they direct
>> the
>>     group in a "benevolent dictator" style, sort of...  The committee
>> does
>>     makes sure stuff happens but has no real force of control.  There
>>     are no
>>     by-laws or hard rules for the committee to lean on or point at.  PLUG
>>     members follow or don't or grumble or yell as they see fit.
>>
>>     So, your point is taken.  If anyone is reserving the right to ban
>>     someone, who has that right and what are the criteria?  I don't know
>>     the
>>     answer to that question.
>>
>>
>>
>>   Honestly, I've been through this with one group already here in
>> Phoenix.  Usually if something happens someone doesn't like, they
>> evoke the hidden and mysterious powers of moderation.  Behind this
>> somewhat ridiculous fig-leaf is some callow sheepish dude who has the
>> password to the listserv.  Very funny stuff in my view.
>>
>>   I can say this: without clear leadership, there will be no clear
>> purpose.  If the person who recently offered up his grandfatherly
>> opinion of the whole thing feels he is in the position of leadership
>> here, he should make that abundantly clear.  Not because I am
>> challenging that leadership, I would just like to know who is running
>> the show if anyone.
>>
>>   I am in touch with Jason and I want to make it clear that it was not
>> my intention to smear him.  I do not make any claims against his
>> character.  He has made job postings on here after our work engagement
>> and I made no attempt to interfere with that.  I asked for a simple
>> thing, and my intention here was to help clear up some confusion.  I
>> will make a sincere attempt to reconcile our disputes.
>>
>>   In a general, I have recently moved out of Phoenix, primarily
>> because I found the work environment here quite lacking.  I could tell
>> you quite a number of stories of my experiences around here[1], but
>> there is a sufficient trail of listserv activity to point to some of
>> my experiences.  I think that Phoenix is currently facing some serious
>> challenges as a city... and there are going to be inevitable changes
>> whether they are welcomed by old-timers or not.  I am quite sure that
>> recent activity in financial markets has hit a number of people on
>> this list directly.
>>
>>   To address Joseph S.'s comments, for a list or a business venue to
>> function correctly, you have to support buyers AND sellers, employers
>> AND employees.  I know that a number of regular contributors are of
>> the hobbyist temperament, and see these kinds of points to be
>> irrelevant and annoying.  Banning feedback on job ads may seem like a
>> great way to attract employers, because they feel safer in making
>> whatever claims they please.  The problem is, that the actual value of
>> the ads degrade, and developers start to take a somewhat non-committal
>> attitude towards working with these parties[3].  What phoenix
>> currently needs is some kind of reputable venue for IT contracting,
>> and I've voiced these concerns before[2].  Silicon Valley (where I
>> currently reside) is literally bulging at the seams with
>> out-of-control cost scales and somewhat of a vacuum of lucrative
>> ideas.  There are people here who make $300K a year designing
>> applications to scrape your address book from your gmail account. 
>> Phoenix /does/ have potential in that sense, but it lacks the legal
>> and commercial infrastructure to support the kind of commercial
>> activity found in Silicon Valley.  This infrastructure was built by
>> folks not unlike yourselves, who just have a basic fascination with
>> technology and its possibilities and decided make the government work
>> for them instead of against them.
>>
>>    Alan, I appreciate your attitude here- I think you are looking out
>> for whats best for all the participants here.  thanks.  jmz
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [1] there is one person on this list that I responded to a job ad, and
>> his 'CTO' refused to give me his last name!  this person later was
>> recommended by someone else on this list!
>>
>> [2] there are key deficiencies in AZ law as compared to that of CA
>> law.  some of the more important aspects are employment law and NCAs.
>>
>> [3] 'no flakes' is perhaps the most common request in web development
>> job postings.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     Better yet, I don't want to need to know the answer to that question.
>>
>>     In the history of PLUG that I know, no one has ever been banned. 
>> Ever.
>>     I'd much rather continue as it has all these years.  Self policing
>>     works and this group is very good at it.
>>
>>     I, for one, would not want the power to ban anyone.
>>
>>     Alan
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> .0000. communication.
>> .0001. development.
>> .0010. strategy.            .0100. appeal.
>>
>> JOSHUA M. ZEIDNER
>> IT Consultant
>>
>> ( 602 ) 490 8006
>> jjzeidner at gmail.com <mailto:jjzeidner at gmail.com>
>>
>>
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