Need to outsource programming or hire full-time

[Joshua Zeidner]

Alan,

  Obviously, I have had some unsatisfactory business Jason in the past.   Of
course, I don't want to deter anyone from posting job ads, or even working
with Jason.  If Jason wants to do business, I do think it is his
responsibility to do so in an upfront way.  Although many view job postings
as positive in all respects, the regular abuse of a list for dubious
employment opportunities is a good way to scare away all serious
developers.  The 'craigslist effect' happens when readers have no way of
distinguishing BS artists from sincere requests.  An interesting feature of
craigslist is that there is no easy way to post back a response, and this
has a way of fostering false information.  what kind of job market do we
want here?  A place for people to do business...  or a sleazy pick up joint?

  In general though I am beginning to grow rather tired of running into
these 1 man shows posing as multi-national corporations who think developers
are some kind of cheap disposable commodity.  They seem to be some kind of
vestige of the dot com boom.  Clearly, by the legacy of job posts that I
pointed out, I am not the first or last person Jason has had a 'bad
experience' with.  Its unfortunate that this situation had to turn into a
confrontation, but all I did ask was that he provide his actual identity,
and I don't think thats asking a lot.  And finally, I am not doing this out
of some personal vendetta, but rather as a service to others like me who
deserve to be warned of potentially costly and problematic situations.

  Any serious employer would post here despite the risk of someone like me
posing questions in front of the group.

  Thanks Alan, I will respect your request not to develop this thread any
further.  I hope you understand that my intentions here are based in neither
spite or malice.  If we all want a functional place to communicate and do
business, it takes work and input.

  Sincerely,

    Josh Zeidner




On 8/27/07, Alan Dayley <alandd at consultpros.com> wrote:
>
> Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 8/27/07, *Scottsdale Arizona Web Design* <
> > plug at scottsdalearizonawebdesign.com
> > <mailto:plug at scottsdalearizonawebdesign.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     Jason Ho-Ching
> >     Owner of several companies and sites including:
> >     echazen.com <http://echazen.com>
> >     scottsdale arizona web design
> >     zencart masters
> >     askamormon.com <http://askamormon.com>
> >     wearesamoa.com <http://wearesamoa.com>
> >     480.355.1434
> >
> >     For the record, I used to post on the utah plug list at www.plug.org
> >     <http://www.plug.org>.  Every post there is highly visible on the
> >     search engines.  Google my name and you'll see a plug post on the
> >     first page.  I have had job postings there get put on google that
> >     discussed projects and what I am paying to my programmers.  This is
> >     the type of information I don't want my clients to see.  We bill our
> >     clients at $85/hr and I don't want clients to see that we pay some
> >     programmers only $40/hr and what not.
> >
> >     This is why I didn't want all my personal info to be posted here
> >     because I assumed it would be as public as the plug.org
> >     <http://plug.org> postings from utah.
> >
> >     I hope this clears up any confusion.  I have posted my name and
> >     number at the top.  I might as well tell you what we're offering to
> >     pay, too, since everything is now on the table.  We are looking to
> >     pay between $40/hr and $75/hr.  Software engineers will make closer
> >     to $75/hr.  These are top-level developers only.  The owner of the
> >     company in utah will be interviewing the candidates to filter out
> >     the more inexperienced developers.  I have already had a very, very,
> >     very bad experience with a programmer on this board.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   Who would that be?
>
> In the context of a discussion on the PLUG email list, this question is
> not appropriate.  If you really want to know, talk with Jason off-list.
>
> IMO, this thread has gone a direction that is helpful neither to the
> group nor to the originator.  Job postings to the list should be brief
> and to the point, providing an off-list contact.  The original posting
> provided this, identifying the source of the posting as "Scottsdale
> Arizona Web Design".  The rest of the information posted in the thread,
> while all public, was not needed in the email list.
>
> My opinion and suggestion is to not take this thread any further.  Let's
> encourage employers to post jobs, not drag them down in side
> discussions.  Interested parties can learn further details on their own
> or in other more appropriate channels.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
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-- 
.0000. communication.
.0001. development.
.0010. strategy.
.0100. appeal.

JOSHUA M. ZEIDNER
IT Consultant

( 602 ) 490 8006
jjzeidner at gmail.com
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