History question
Bob Cober
plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:11:56 -0700
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Good post David! I liked reading it.....
Never knew Multics came out of the I-17/TBird facility.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: David P. Schwartz=20
To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us=20
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 5:03 AM
Subject: Re: History question
Multics was a humongous (for that time) project funded in large part =
by the government (DARPA, I believe) and developed by GE/Honeywell =
largely here in Phoenix (at the Thunderbird and I-17 facility). It was =
the first time that anybody had attempted to implement security =
mechanisms directly within the hardware itself. It started around =
1967-68, and kept many thousands of techies well employed here for over =
a decade. (I used to work with a bunch of guys who worked on Multics =
forever.)=20
They said that there was an ongoing debate about whether all the =
expense of implementing the security stuff in hardware was really =
necessary. It was a huge undertaking. Reportedly, some guys at Bell =
Labs got together and decided to see if they could implement a =
software-only design that was as secure as the Multics model. Hence, =
"Unix" became a loose acronym for "Unix is not Multics".=20
Part of the problem with having security stuff in hardware was that =
nothing was symmetric -- you had to go through the hardware "gates" to =
get access to various system functions that only worked in one =
direction. So one of the guiding principles of the overall Unix design =
was to make things as symmetric as possible. Hence, the evolution of =
pipes on the command line and the ability to send a file in one end of a =
pipe and have it come out the other end, and feed the output back into =
the same things only reversed and get the original data back.=20
Multics had something like 8 security "rings" that were supported by =
hardware, modeled roughly after the typical kind of security methods =
used to protect physical stuff. Unix implemented three levels of =
security based on roles: "user", "group" and "world". It took a while =
before the military decided that role-based security was a more =
effective approach.=20
Multics was designed for a machine with something like 128k words of =
memory. Unix was designed on and for a PDP-8 (with 8k words of memory) =
and later a PDP-11 with 32k words of memory. This was due in large part =
to the fact that their newly designed programming language, called 'c', =
evolved on that hardware, and that's what they had available to them.=20
(I remember when ASU's Engineering Computing Center got a bank of =
brand new PDP-11Ms and they installed Unix on a couple of them. The =
others were running RSTS-E, a fairly traditional "time sharing" terminal =
server. The Unix machines kicked-butt over the other machines! I think =
that was back in late 1978 or early 79. I graduated in May of 79, and =
heard that within a couple of years, they were all running Unix. RSTS =
was out.)=20
Another "feature" of Multics was that it was the target of another =
HUGE undertaking of the Govt, in that it's primary language was a =
variant of PL/1 called PL/Multics, if I recall correctly. Again, the =
choice by Unix developers to use a language that was regarded at the =
time as barely a step above assembly code was notable.=20
Everything about Unix was pretty much deliberately chosen to be "not =
Multics".=20
AT&T used to freely license Unix to educational institutions. =
Berkeley became a hot-bed of independent research and development =
efforts, and they spawned a significant amount of re-design of both the =
kernel and many of the command-line utilities. Berkeley had some kind =
of an arrangement with AT&T to sell versions of their software to =
commercial organizations; that was where the old BSD code originated. =
When AT&T spun off Bell Labs, the bean counters started going nuts. I =
was working at Motorola at that time with the team that was porting Sys =
V to the 68020. They started getting legal beagles in the loop on =
things that they never gave a second thought to before that.=20
Some sort of controversy arose between the Regents of the UC Schools, =
the profs doing the work at UCB, and Bell Labs over licensing. It was =
resolved by everybody agreeing that the "Unix" trademark was the =
exclusive property of Bell Labs, that nothing from UCB could use that =
name unless it was qualified as being the "Berkeley version", hence the =
use of "BSD" on everything. And the sales revenues would all go to the =
UC School System, rather than the developers at UCB. Bell Labs put a =
relatively high price on their software licenses, so most people favored =
the BSD version. Big corporations licensed from the Labs, but everybody =
else went with BSD because it was practically free (the professors =
didn't see any point in charging if the monies were only going into =
state coffers).=20
Moto was porting Sys V to the 68020 under contract by the Labs, so =
they didn't run into the same problem as UCB did. But then, nobody ever =
really trusted Motorola's Unix software for some reason, preferring to =
buy it from Bell Labs directly.=20
(tangent: In the early 70s, Gary Kildall was teaching at the Naval =
PostGraduate School in Monterey where he invented a small programming =
language that he called PL/M -- a "Programming Language for Micros". He =
used it to write CP/M [a Control Program for Microprocessors, also =
modelled loosely after Unix] that was a popular OS for 8080-based =
computers. He tried selling both to Intel around 1976, but Intel wasn't =
buying. Bill Gates tried to buy it around 1978, but Gary was busy =
golfing. PL/M was eventually "appropriated" by Intel, and they used it =
to create a knock-off of CP/M they called ISIS. PL/M went on to become =
Intel's primary development language until 'c' compilers became so =
pervasive in the late 80's that they couldn't rape and pillage ... uhh, =
I mean ... sell their PL/M tools any more. Bill Gates left Gary to his =
golfing and then went out and bought this thing called "DOS" from =
Seattle Computer Works. Anybody remember the word that used to be in =
front of "Digital Research" before Gary shortened it?)=20
Here's some trivia y'all probably don't know... Some Multics hardware =
architects got hired by Intel around 1977, and the 286 was given a =
4-ring security model adopted from Multics. A couple of Multics =
software architects were hired as well to develop what was supposed to =
be RMX-86, a fully secure real-time multi-tasking executive that took =
advantage of the new security features. Unfortunately, the chip =
designers went off in the weeds and implemented some "features" that =
prevented any real software support, so nobody ever released a decent OS =
that worked in "protected mode" on that chip. (I worked on the RMX-86 =
team at Intel where we were trying to do it, and we determined it =
couldn't be done!) So the world had to wait until the 386 showed up a =
few years later for their first taste of "real" security in a =
microprocessor. It took Microsoft to release Windows NT and IBM's OS/2 =
before anybody took much advantage of the security features built into =
all of Intel's x86 family of chips since the 386.=20
I'd be curious to know when the first protected-mode version of Unix =
was ever implemented on an x86-based machine. I can't recall if Minix =
ran in protected-mode or not. People avoided the Intel architecture =
like the plague until the mid-80's, ostensibly because they believed the =
architecture was somehow "warped".=20
What most people don't realize is that when Intel designed their 286, =
they deliberately chose an architecture modelled after the largest and =
most successful computer company in the world at that time -- IBM. The =
286 was designed to be roughly 1/2 of an IBM 360 CPU. IBM was funding =
LOTS of R&D to find out how to improve compiler technology, and Intel =
figured it would make it easier to hire "experts" if their architecture =
closely reflected what these guys were already studying! For a while in =
the early 80's, Intel had one of the sharpest compiler teams in the =
industry.=20
Unix was originally developed on PDP machines. These computers had a =
"flat" architecture where all peripherals were memory-mapped -- they =
appeared like storage registers in the regular memory space -- unlike =
the "segmented" architecture used by IBM that had a separate set of I/O =
ports for peripheral interfaces. Motorola adopted the PDP model. Their =
6800 and the Intel 8080 weren't all that different if you ignored how =
they dealt with peripheral devices. But the 68000 and the 286 suddenly =
looked like they came from different planets. It was probably that =
architectural resistance that kept people from seriously porting Unix to =
the x86 world.=20
Today the world has inverted -- the newest stuff is almost always =
released first on Intel platforms, and then later on others. (Anybody =
know where can I get a copy of Red Hat 7.1 for SPARC-IIi's?)=20
-David Schwartz=20
From: "Michael F. March"=20
To:=20
Subject: Re: History question
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:56:51 -0700
Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
UNIX was developed on a lark. The two inventors where on the
Multics team and when AT&T pulled out of the project they
recreated a lite version internally in AT&T.
> I've read that AT&T developed Unix under US Government grant (DARPA
> Project) which is why they couldn't sell it.
>
> George
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Good post David! I liked =
reading=20
it.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Never knew Multics came out of the =
I-17/TBird=20
facility.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:davids@desertigloo.com" =
title=3Ddavids@desertigloo.com>David P.=20
Schwartz</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us"=20
=
title=3Dplug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>plug-discuss@lists.plug.pho=
enix.az.us</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 08, 2002 =
5:03=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: History =
question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Multics was a humongous (for that time) project funded =
in large=20
part by the government (DARPA, I believe) and developed by =
GE/Honeywell=20
largely here in Phoenix (at the Thunderbird and I-17 facility). =
It was=20
the first time that anybody had attempted to implement security =
mechanisms=20
directly within the hardware itself. It started around 1967-68, =
and kept=20
many thousands of techies well employed here for over a decade. =
(I used=20
to work with a bunch of guys who worked on Multics forever.)=20
<P>They said that there was an ongoing debate about whether all the =
expense of=20
implementing the security stuff in hardware was really =
necessary. It was=20
a huge undertaking. Reportedly, some guys at Bell Labs got =
together and=20
decided to see if they could implement a software-only design that was =
as=20
secure as the Multics model. Hence, "Unix" became a loose =
acronym for=20
"Unix is not Multics".=20
<P>Part of the problem with having security stuff in hardware was that =
nothing=20
was symmetric -- you had to go through the hardware "gates" to get =
access to=20
various system functions that only worked in one direction. So =
one of=20
the guiding principles of the overall Unix design was to make things =
as=20
symmetric as possible. Hence, the evolution of pipes on the =
command line=20
and the ability to send a file in one end of a pipe and have it come =
out the=20
other end, and feed the output back into the same things only reversed =
and get=20
the original data back.=20
<P>Multics had something like 8 security "rings" that were supported =
by=20
hardware, modeled roughly after the typical kind of security methods =
used to=20
protect physical stuff. Unix implemented three levels of =
security based=20
on roles: "user", "group" and "world". It took a while before =
the=20
military decided that role-based security was a more effective =
approach.=20
<P>Multics was designed for a machine with something like 128k words =
of=20
memory. Unix was designed on and for a PDP-8 (with 8k words of =
memory)=20
and later a PDP-11 with 32k words of memory. This was due in =
large part=20
to the fact that their newly designed programming language, called =
'c',=20
evolved on that hardware, and that's what they had available to them.=20
<P>(I remember when ASU's Engineering Computing Center got a bank of =
brand new=20
PDP-11Ms and they installed Unix on a couple of them. The others =
were=20
running RSTS-E, a fairly traditional "time sharing" terminal =
server. The=20
Unix machines kicked-butt over the other machines! I think that =
was back=20
in late 1978 or early 79. I graduated in May of 79, and heard =
that=20
within a couple of years, they were all running Unix. RSTS was =
out.)=20
<P>Another "feature" of Multics was that it was the target of another =
HUGE=20
undertaking of the Govt, in that it's primary language was a variant =
of PL/1=20
called PL/Multics, if I recall correctly. Again, the choice by =
Unix=20
developers to use a language that was regarded at the time as barely a =
step=20
above assembly code was notable.=20
<P>Everything about Unix was pretty much deliberately chosen to be =
"not=20
Multics".=20
<P>AT&T used to freely license Unix to educational =
institutions. =20
Berkeley became a hot-bed of independent research and development =
efforts, and=20
they spawned a significant amount of re-design of both the kernel and =
many of=20
the command-line utilities. Berkeley had some kind of an =
arrangement=20
with AT&T to sell versions of their software to commercial =
organizations;=20
that was where the old BSD code originated. When AT&T spun =
off Bell=20
Labs, the bean counters started going nuts. I was working at =
Motorola at=20
that time with the team that was porting Sys V to the 68020. =
They=20
started getting legal beagles in the loop on things that they never =
gave a=20
second thought to before that. <BR><BR>Some sort of controversy arose =
between=20
the Regents of the UC Schools, the profs doing the work at UCB, and =
Bell Labs=20
over licensing. It was resolved by everybody agreeing that the =
"Unix"=20
trademark was the exclusive property of Bell Labs, that nothing from =
UCB could=20
use that name unless it was qualified as being the "Berkeley version", =
hence=20
the use of "BSD" on everything. And the sales revenues would all =
go to=20
the UC School System, rather than the developers at UCB. Bell =
Labs put a=20
relatively high price on their software licenses, so most people =
favored the=20
BSD version. Big corporations licensed from the Labs, but everybody =
else went=20
with BSD because it was practically free (the professors didn't see =
any point=20
in charging if the monies were only going into state coffers).=20
<P>Moto was porting Sys V to the 68020 under contract by the Labs, so =
they=20
didn't run into the same problem as UCB did. But then, nobody =
ever=20
really trusted Motorola's Unix software for some reason, preferring to =
buy it=20
from Bell Labs directly.=20
<P>(tangent: In the early 70s, Gary Kildall was teaching at the Naval=20
PostGraduate School in Monterey where he invented a small programming =
language=20
that he called PL/M -- a "Programming Language for Micros". He =
used it=20
to write CP/M [a Control Program for Microprocessors, also modelled =
loosely=20
after Unix] that was a popular OS for 8080-based computers. He =
tried=20
selling both to Intel around 1976, but Intel wasn't buying. Bill =
Gates=20
tried to buy it around 1978, but Gary was busy golfing. PL/M was =
eventually "appropriated" by Intel, and they used it to create a =
knock-off of=20
CP/M they called ISIS. PL/M went on to become Intel's primary=20
development language until 'c' compilers became so pervasive in the =
late 80's=20
that they couldn't rape and pillage ... uhh, I mean ... sell their =
PL/M tools=20
any more. Bill Gates left Gary to his golfing and then went out =
and=20
bought this thing called "DOS" from Seattle Computer Works. =
Anybody=20
remember the word that used to be in front of "Digital Research" =
before Gary=20
shortened it?) <BR><BR>Here's some trivia y'all probably don't know... =
Some=20
Multics hardware architects got hired by Intel around 1977, and the =
286 was=20
given a 4-ring security model adopted from Multics. A couple of =
Multics=20
software architects were hired as well to develop what was supposed to =
be=20
RMX-86, a fully secure real-time multi-tasking executive that took =
advantage=20
of the new security features. Unfortunately, the chip designers =
went off=20
in the weeds and implemented some "features" that prevented any real =
software=20
support, so nobody ever released a decent OS that worked in "protected =
mode"=20
on that chip. (I worked on the RMX-86 team at Intel where we =
were trying=20
to do it, and we determined it couldn't be done!) So the world =
had to=20
wait until the 386 showed up a few years later for their first taste =
of "real"=20
security in a microprocessor. It took Microsoft to release =
Windows NT=20
and IBM's OS/2 before anybody took much advantage of the security =
features=20
built into all of Intel's x86 family of chips since the 386.=20
<P>I'd be curious to know when the first protected-mode version of =
Unix was=20
ever implemented on an x86-based machine. I can't recall if =
Minix ran in=20
protected-mode or not. People avoided the Intel architecture =
like the=20
plague until the mid-80's, ostensibly because they believed the =
architecture=20
was somehow "warped".=20
<P>What most people don't realize is that when Intel designed their =
286, they=20
deliberately chose an architecture modelled after the largest and most =
successful computer company in the world at that time -- IBM. =
The 286=20
was designed to be roughly 1/2 of an IBM 360 CPU. IBM was =
funding LOTS=20
of R&D to find out how to improve compiler technology, and Intel =
figured=20
it would make it easier to hire "experts" if their architecture =
closely=20
reflected what these guys were already studying! For a while in =
the=20
early 80's, Intel had one of the sharpest compiler teams in the =
industry.=20
<P>Unix was originally developed on PDP machines. These =
computers had a=20
"flat" architecture where all peripherals were memory-mapped -- they =
appeared=20
like storage registers in the regular memory space -- unlike the =
"segmented"=20
architecture used by IBM that had a separate set of I/O ports for =
peripheral=20
interfaces. Motorola adopted the PDP model. Their 6800 and =
the=20
Intel 8080 weren't all that different if you ignored how they dealt =
with=20
peripheral devices. But the 68000 and the 286 suddenly looked =
like they=20
came from different planets. It was probably that architectural=20
resistance that kept people from seriously porting Unix to the x86 =
world.=20
<BR><BR>Today the world has inverted -- the newest stuff is almost =
always=20
released first on Intel platforms, and then later on others. =
(Anybody=20
know where can I get a copy of Red Hat 7.1 for SPARC-IIi's?)=20
<P>-David Schwartz=20
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE"><PRE>From: "Michael F. =
March" <MARCH@INDIRECT.COM>
To: <PLUG-DISCUSS@LISTS.PLUG.PHOENIX.AZ.US>
Subject: Re: History question
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:56:51 -0700
Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
UNIX was developed on a lark. The two inventors where on the
Multics team and when AT&T pulled out of the project they
recreated a lite version internally in AT&T.
> I've read that AT&T developed Unix under US Government grant =
(DARPA
> Project) which is why they couldn't sell it.
>
> George</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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