Mensan seeks work

[JD Austin IV]

> 	I would debate that a certification proves someone is_not_out and
out
> incompetent at any age.  I've found often it's easy for the average
> idiot with a decent memory to pass most basic tests.  Perhaps you
> should visit some of the local future IT monkey bootcamps locally like
> Techskills and Computer Learning Center and watch people haplessly
> staring at an animation on the art of how to insert a DIMM into the
> slot to get their A+
> certification, jotting notes as they go.  These are what will be coming
> to you for a job in the near future.
>
> 	Certifications sadly enough are what it will take to get your
average
> headhunter to submit you for a job, but they mean little to nothing to
> me when I'm interviewing someone for a job.  I've simply had the
> displeasure too many times of having to clean up too many messes left
> by certified monkeys hired by people that don't understand what they
> want to begin with. The people I would consider to be the best
> engineers/admins/whatever rarely have certification beyond the token
> CCNA, MCP, or whatever.  I'm not saying that the certs are utterly
> worthless, but one thing I've noticed in Arizona is the often the utter
> reliance on them as a proving factor of anyone's worth.

I have about the same attitude about them.  The unfortunate part is that
certifications aren't cheap :(  Even if you can take the classes at
community college with a bunch of idiots that couldn't find a clue if you
pointed directly to one :) it ends up being a lot of money.  College takes
a lot longer when you're paying for it yourself and have to work full time
too.  I was taking Oracle certification classes when I was laid off, now I
can't afford to take them.  I wish I had that certification now.. the job
market is rough since 9-11!  I breeze through all of my computer related
classes, almost always get an 'A', because I don't NEED someone to teach me
how to write code or understand logic (its in my blood :) ).  What is
really annoying is that often I go to class and they actually READ the book
to you!

>
> 	Most of my experience was spent in frying pan dot.com's tryin to
keep
> 	them
> alive with little thought to certs at the time.  It bit me in the ass
> returning to Arizona.

Same here :(   I didn't start taking Oracle certification classes until I
smelled the company's demise coming (stupid me).  At least I got a fair
amount of experience (in areas that just don't seem to be popular now).
For the most part, I enjoyed saving the company time and time again when
some sales droid (or the company's owner) would pitch some product or
service that didn't exist... I was the guy that always made it happen,
staying up late and weekends.  What did I get for all the effort?
Nothing :(  Almost all of the projects I did died due to poor management or
because no market to begin with.  Towards the end I smelled things getting
bad, the DB Administrator they hired quit when they were late with one
check.  I was holding out until I could get finish my Oracle
certification.. the money ran out first :(  I've taken about half of the
classes (all A's), can't afford to take the tests!



> I got the token phat CCNA and people started
> talking to me, but still nothing decent as I was honest about my
> experiences.  It took a certain amount of embellishment (as I see it)
> to get people to talk to me about much of anything considering a
> relatively short time in the field.  Would I call myself an expert in
> certain fields (well, any field)? No, and most people with any humility
> wouldn't either, but that is what it takes anymore.

I totally agree.  On Monster.com I started out with most of my skills as
'Intermediate', since I knew there were areas that just didn't come up at
work, even with languages I've been developing with for years.  Recently I
bumped some of them up to Expert :(

> What I don't know,
> I'm certain I can learn, but that isn't good enough anymore, and
> admitting what you don't know is suicide.  It sometimes comes down to
> lying (hell, some recruiters will even coach you to do so...), but when
> it comes down to it, you just have to be able to back it up.  If you
> can't, than you should know better.
>

Yep, my resume is honest and I don't get too many calls.
There just isn't much call for PHP/Perl/Mysql/Oracle development right now
and thats most of what I did the last 3 years.  I am fairly adept with
working with Oracle but every job ad wants you to know SAP, Oracle 11i
Financials, and the whole Oracle 6i Developer suite Forms,Reports,and
Procedure Builder (Only 1 of the 3 I know).  I hate lying about anything,
but it's getting to the point that I'm considering some major
embellishment ;(  I have about 8 weeks of unemployment left, my wife and I
are both stressing out about it, and I'm worried that I'll have to go back
to retard work sometime soon.  Working crap jobs to get through college
didn't work before, I doubt it would work out now (They just DONT CARE that
you're going to college and often do everything they can to interfere,
since they don't want to lose good workers).

And man do I hate some recruiters...
I had one recently that TOTALLY screwed me out of a job because he didn't
tell me what company he was with or where he was submitting my resume to
and took revenge when I had another company represent me that did.  The
same day another recruiting company called for the same job at Insight,
told me all the details, I went down and interviewed with them, and signed
an exclusive agreement with them.
A few days later they called saying that someone else had submitted my
resume.. Anyway to make a long story short..
Since I signed an exclusive agreement with the one company to represent me
for the job, I told the other recruiter that they were going to represent
me.  He said was friends with the hiring manager there, and got him hired,
(trying to persuade me to have him represent me) but eventually agreed to
withdraw my resume.  They NEVER returned any calls from the other
company, I saw the other recruiters job posting on Headhunter for that same
job for 3 weeks, and they hired someone else.  What really annoys me is I
spent $30 on a worthless brainbench 'certification' for nothing, so I could
get the 'Master PHP Certification' :(



> 	I respect the different points of view on the topic, and have seen
> 	them
> first hand from just about any angle.  Times have changed, as have
> required tactics for keeping alive.  That area of gray between white
> and black gets bigger every day...  Survival of the fittest, do what
> you must.
>
> -mbutash

I started out up beat about things when I was laid off, but that was 3 1/2
months ago.  As much as I **HATE** hype, I'm going to have to redo my
resume to improve my odds.   At this point Im not sure what I can do beyond
that.  I know I can adapt to other kinds of programming (I've been coding
since 1983 in everything from 6502 assembly to Mainframe Cobol and REXX to
PHP), but the current job market wants an exact fit for any given job.

I got this last job starting out doing something I had no experience in as
a consultant (A friend got me the job), I got the job done well under their
time frame even though I had to cram to learn everything I needed to know...
So they hired me on full time.  It was a fun 3 1/2 years :)  At this point
I hope I don't have to go back to blue collar work while I continue to go
to school just to survive.
80% of the jobs I see are M$ related jobs :(
It's getting bad.. I just got a copy of SQL Server, MS Developer studio, and
loaded one of my boxes with Office 2000 so I can run all of it.  Though how
valuable would it be to spend the next few weeks learning the Microsoft way?

JD

-- 
There is no problem that can withstand the assault of sustained thought. ~
Voltaire
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety~ Ben Franklin