Mensan seeks work

[Dr. Ghastly]

Our company goes on more then just certification. Certification, or any kind
of continued education, is just another part of the company's assesment.

I respect my Director more then any other boss I have ever worked for. Our
dept is full of people who KNOW what they are doing (Except me, I'm under
30, heh...)  and when they go for their certification, they dont just care
about passing the test, they actually sit around and have discussions on how
to better themslves through the gained knowledge. It's all about workplace
environment. It's really quite motivating.


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Once you start down the dark path, forever will it
dominate your destiny, consume you it will...
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Butash" <mike@butash.net>
To: <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 10:56 PM
Subject: RE: Mensan seeks work


> I would debate that a certification proves someone is_not_out and out
> incompetent at any age.  I've found often it's easy for the average idiot
> with a decent memory to pass most basic tests.  Perhaps you should visit
> some of the local future IT monkey bootcamps locally like Techskills and
> Computer Learning Center and watch people haplessly staring at an
animation
> on the art of how to insert a DIMM into the slot to get their A+
> certification, jotting notes as they go.  These are what will be coming to
> you for a job in the near future.
>
> Certifications sadly enough are what it will take to get your average
> headhunter to submit you for a job, but they mean little to nothing to me
> when I'm interviewing someone for a job.  I've simply had the displeasure
> too many times of having to clean up too many messes left by certified
> monkeys hired by people that don't understand what they want to begin
with.
> The people I would consider to be the best engineers/admins/whatever
rarely
> have certification beyond the token CCNA, MCP, or whatever.  I'm not
saying
> that the certs are utterly worthless, but one thing I've noticed in
Arizona
> is the often the utter reliance on them as a proving factor of anyone's
> worth.
>
> Most of my experience was spent in frying pan dot.com's tryin to keep them
> alive with little thought to certs at the time.  It bit me in the ass
> returning to Arizona.  I got the token phat CCNA and people started
talking
> to me, but still nothing decent as I was honest about my experiences.  It
> took a certain amount of embellishment (as I see it) to get people to talk
> to me about much of anything considering a relatively short time in the
> field.  Would I call myself an expert in certain fields (well, any field)?
> No, and most people with any humility wouldn't either, but that is what it
> takes anymore.  What I don't know, I'm certain I can learn, but that isn't
> good enough anymore, and admitting what you don't know is suicide.  It
> sometimes comes down to lying (hell, some recruiters will even coach you
to
> do so...), but when it comes down to it, you just have to be able to back
it
> up.  If you can't, than you should know better.
>
> I respect the different points of view on the topic, and have seen them
> first hand from just about any angle.  Times have changed, as have
required
> tactics for keeping alive.  That area of gray between white and black gets
> bigger every day...  Survival of the fittest, do what you must.
>
> -mbutash
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: plug-discuss-admin@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> [mailto:plug-discuss-admin@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us]On Behalf Of Trent
> Shipley
> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 10:10 PM
> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> Subject: Re: Mensan seeks work
>
>
> Dr. Ghastly wrote
> >
> > Also, where I work, they FORCE you to get certification. They make you
get
> > certified in EVERYTHING. At least they pay for it.
> >
>
> Why on earth would they want you to certify *after* the hire.  The entire
> point of a cert is to provide some gurantee of minimal competence.  You
> don't
> go through a cert process to become competent.  You don't even learn that
> much from it.
>
> A cert makes it unlikely the certification holder is out-and-out
> incompetent.
>  If a certification were sufficient to demonstrate competence and ability
we
> wouldn't make lawyers and doctors go to school and do internships.  They'd
> just have to pass their board exams.
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