Advice

[keith@christianexchange.org]

One of the potential problems from asking too many questions is they will
look at you as a problem child.

I try to explain that I need enough information to make a good decision
because I would like to stay for a while.  (I am not adverse to leaving a
place soon after starting if it does not meet my needs, and of course my
employer *_will_* discharge me if I do not meet their needs.)

I find the best way to find out about a company is to find an employee that
will give you the real insight.  I find this the best approach.

Of course this only my 2 cents

In Peace,
Keith Smith 


----- Original Message -----
From: Kimi A. Adams <kimi@unitywave.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:42:11 AM
To: <plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us>
Subject: Re: Advice

> Well said.  I haven't been following all replies to this posting because
of 
> a busy schedule, but I know this to be true.  I worked temporary jobs on 
> and off for over ten years.  When you work with this kind of hostile 
> atmosphere as well as having to sometimes interview for even a short term 
> position, you learn quickly that if you don't ask the right questions,
you 
> will be stuck in a short term job that is stressing you out.  Then you
have 
> to jump right into the next one because there may not be another for a
week 
> or even several.
> 
> When interviewing with someone, I always ask why the position is being 
> filled.  What happened to the previous person.  If that person is
pregnant 
> or very seriously ill, then I know it's not for internal issues or 
> something that would complicate my life.  If they dance around the 
> question, then I point blank tell them that if they had a problem, such
as 
> personality conflicts, that I would have to consider whether it was with
a 
> current employee or the person leaving.  That's leaves you open for more 
> details, possibly more than you want, but at least you would know.
> 
> It's rare to find other people that teach interviewing skills that
includes 
> you, the prospective employee, asking very pertinent questions to them,
the 
> employer.  If you try to save your butt in any other situation, then why
is 
> it that you don't when you interview?  I mean, it's the place that you
will 
> spend most of your weekday hours, all week at and if you don't like it or 
> it makes your life off from work too stressful, then why bother.
> 
> But on the other hand, if I don't receive 100% commitment from the people 
> that I hire, they are going to be relieved from duty.  Compensate the
hard 
> working employees, give them lunch everyday, give them a flexible
schedule, 
> give them enough time off and flexibility to do their work and deal with 
> personal issues.  That's what I do with my people.  It's their choice to 
> work or not, but mine to relieve them of duty if they don't cut 
> it.  Dedication is imperative for any company so treating them as if they 
> are robots, trained to only do instead of think is the mentality of 
> Corporate America.  Small businesses rein in that area because I cannot
use 
> a robot, I need an Einstein or something at least with the brains to
figure 
> out that creativity will get you everywhere you want to go.
> 
> Kimi
> 
> 
> 
> At 3/22/01 08:57 AM, you wrote:
> 
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: George Toft <george@georgetoft.com>
> >To: <plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us>
> >Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 10:15 PM
> >Subject: Re: Advice
> >
> >
> > > That's what I did at my last job.  My 30 seconds were focused on:
> > > How long at each job.
> > > Did he/she put the skills I asked for on the resume.
> > > Education.
> > >
> > > I had one resume that actually said Linux as a skill, as this was a
> > > Linux position (98% of the resumes had MS all over it).  I asked
> > > him if he knew anything about Linux.  He said "What do you mean?"
> > > I replied: "Do you know more than just how to spell it?"  He responded
> > > by pressing one of the buttons on the phone keypad, and hung up on
> > > me.  My reaction: Filing the resume in the "No Way" pile.
> > >
> > > We each have our ways of filtering candidates (or employers).
> > >
> > > George
> > >
> >
> >
> >George please don't take this as a personal attack.  I think we can all
> >learn a lot from each other.  You think interviewing as a hiring manager
is
> >tough, so is interviewing for a prospective position.  There are the
sweat
> >shops, the cheapies, the no benefits, full-time or part-time jobs
> >masquerading as an internship........ ETC.
> >
> >Phone interviews are tough.  No body language.  Maybe he thought you were
> >being rude or making fun of him. Without actually being there, and not
> >knowing you, my assessment of your question "Do you know more than just
how
> >to spell it?"  would turn me off and I would probably end the interview
soon
> >after.
> >
> >I recently got a call from a company that wanted to know if I was
interested
> >in working for them.  After I said yes they asked how much I wanted.  I
> >asked for a mid-range salary given my skill set and experience. The guy
> >wanted to pay $7,000 less (entry level) and quit talking with me.  He
said
> >he was using a headhunter and needed to continue along that path.  This
> >makes no since to me because I know he will pay about $12,000 to find
> >someone who will stay no more than 2 years once they find out how much
they
> >can really make.  The math works out that I only wanted about $1000 more
a
> >year by not going through a headhunter.  Entry level and save $1000 a
year
> >VS. years of experience with the exact tools - Go Figure!
> >
> >One of the things I find interesting is the "What do you want?" question.
> >When I interviewed with a small mom and pop software company several
years
> >ago this is how I responded: "More money is not all that important to
me, I
> >would like more vacation time."  I went on to tell them I would like 4 or
> >more weeks of vacation in stead of a pay raise.  I actually told them I
> >would be willing to take less money if I received more time off than I
was
> >getting from my employer at the time.  They treated me like I was some
sort
> >of freak!
> >
> >Several years ago I received a call from a Phoenix company (I live in
> >Tucson) and was told they wanted to interview me.  I asked for a phone
> >interview to determine if driving to Phoenix would be a good use of my
time.
> >I explained that during most interviews within 5 minutes I know I do not
> >want to work for them or they know they do not want me, and I would hate
to
> >drive 2 hours to Phoenix and 2 hours back to spend 5 minutes finding out
it
> >would not be worth while to continue the process.  I never receive a
follow
> >up call.  This tells me this company does not care about their employees
of
> >which I will never be.
> >
> >I have a ton of personal stories.  I've accepted offers which ended up
being
> >something different than what was presented and I ended up quitting soon
> >after. It was my intent to stay a while, maybe even a little longer,
when I
> >accepted the position.  One of things to ponder when hiring someone is
they
> >may be processing with several companies.  If you hire them under false
> >pretence they will know. They may be getting offers within weeks or
months
> >of accepting a position with your company.  After several weeks they
know if
> >they were sold a bill of goods.  This happened with my wife.  She
applied at
> >several places, having her hopes on one company.  She received an offer
> >within days and took the job.  The place had top notch pay and benefits
> >however the work environment was very hostile.  Several month later after
> >having her fill of harassment and hostility she was offered a position
with
> >the original company she wanted to work for.  It meant several dollars an
> >hour pay reduction and a lesser benefit package.  She looked that this
> >prospect long and hard to make sure she was not jumping from the frying
pan
> >into the fire.  She took the job with less pay and benefits and likes it
> >much more.
> >
> >So hiring managers beware, we are sizing you up too.
> >
> >Interviewing is tough and no fun.  I've become very aggressive in
> >interviewing my prospective employer.  I'm tired of finding out that what
> >the job and work place are really like is nothing like what they
presented.
> >I'm sure candidates lie and embellish.  I know managers do.
> >
> >With 401k and portable health insurance moving from one job to the next
is
> >very easy.  I think most people change jobs every 2 or 3 years.
> >
> >I find most leads and managers think they need to beat their subordinates
> >with a stick to get results.  Employees are like dogs.  Beat them with a
> >stick and they bite you!  Show them a little love, compassion,
> >understanding, through them a treat, buy them lunch, give them a day off,
> >and they will follow you all over the place - loyalty will be second to
> >none.  They will even follow you to your next company.  You will hear
rumors
> >of wars and later find your loyal servant had fought the battle
protecting
> >you without ever involving you.  Shall I go on?  Be an average employer
and
> >see how fast people avoid responsibility and how poorly your group will
> >perform.  You will train a new employee to loose them...... People tend
to
> >rise to your expectation of them.  Employees are like dogs!
> >
> >This was not meant as a personal attack.
> >
> >With love, peace, and respect,
> >Keith Smith
> >
> >
> ><SNIP>
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________
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> 
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