Fwd: RE: [azipa] Must be able to Handcode HTML?
Trent Shipley
plug-devel@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
Tue Feb 19 20:10:02 2002
Does anyone here want to sponsor this proposal from AZIPA?
Maybe we should start a round table
group for the purpose of developing/designing/etc for better web design and
development. I know I could learn a few things from the group and may have
a few things to contribute.
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: RE: [azipa] Must be able to Handcode HTML?
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:00:02 -0700
From: "KC" <kc@webliteplus.com>
To: "'Daniel Hoerr'" <daniel@filterindustries.com>, "'Paul Motter'"
<paulmotter@cruisemates.com>, <azipa@yahoogroups.com>
Paul and others who have shown interest in this topic,
I think you have hit the nail on the head. Instead of belittling each
other, let's learn from each other. When I have a problem getting something
to work right, I go to the code to see what might be amiss. This doesn't
mean that I am a code junky just that it's another tool that I have
available to use. There is so much to learn out there, that I just wish I
could get it all in my noodle. :) Maybe we should start a round table
group for the purpose of developing/designing/etc for better web design and
development. I know I could learn a few things from the group and may have
a few things to contribute.
If this thread has done one thing for me, it's inspired me to take some time
to read a few pages out of my many HTML books.
Best Regards,
Karen
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Hoerr [mailto:daniel@filterindustries.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 11:44 AM
To: Paul Motter; azipa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [azipa] Must be able to Handcode HTML?
From: Paul Motter [mailto:paulmotter@cruisemates.com]
///
"But the main argument for learning handcoding in my opinion is that sites
created by WYSIWYG editors tend to look cookie-cutter. For truly different
looks you have to go beyond the the standard options DW and especially
FrontPage offer."
///
WHAT? Are you serious in your estimation that DW creates "cookie cutter"
sites? The only time this is the case is when POOR designers (maybe they
can code with Notepad, but they should stay far, far away from creative
projects) start polluting a site with clip art and stock animated gifs.
Unless you're talking about templates that come with the program or get
downloaded from some do-it-yourself web design site, Dreamweaver creates
NOTHING graphical for you. Frontpage on the other hand.... :(
I've read this entire thread and here's the problem and the MAIN point that
everyone's missing: LET THE CODERS CODE AND THE DESIGNERS DESIGN!!!! Don't
expect someone that can create attractive, aesthetically pleasing pages to
use Notepad. And don't expect someone that knows every programming language
under the sun to create pages that look nice. It's a two step process
people. And if you're too much of an elitist to think that you're an expert
at both then you'll either create poorly coded pages, or sorry looking
pages. Rarely will you find someone that has enough left brain AND right
brain to do both perfectly.
I've been there, and my portfolio shows it. I have some sites in my past
that I am *not* proud of. I'm not a programmer! I used what I had
available to me at the time. They look nice, but I'm certain the code is a
total mess and adheres to NOTHING the W3C has ever published.
The fact of the matter is that people restrict themselves greatly by trying
to be a designer/developer/coder/all-in-one-web-pro. It's the companies and
the firms out there that have a creative team AND a development team that
shine, even if those teams consist of only one person.
Sure, I was making more money doing an $8k site ALL by myself, but I
realized there are resources out there that will allow me to make $6k on the
same site and churn out a 100x better product. Then not only can I say
"Look at my pretty pages" but also "Look at my pretty pages WHICH are coded
100% to the latest industry standards!".
Don't get me wrong, Dreamweaver is a GREAT tool to allow us right brainers
to see in our native tongue (wholes rather than parts, intuitive rather than
sequential), but it will only confuse you unless you learn the code first.
I use DW on a regular basis, and sometimes, even output a page from it for
use without sending the project to one of my codegeeks, but only in simple,
and occasional cases.
Bottom line, designers should design, and coders should code. Don't cross
the streams, but have enough knowledge of both sides of the coin to be able
to work together as a team.
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AZIPA (Arizona Internet Professionals Association) Discussion List
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Please see http://www.azipa.org/mail.html for list info and guidelines
Report list related problems/concerns at mailto:listcomment@azipa.org
Thank you to our Sponsors/Supporters! http://www.acteva.com/go/azipa
* Deru Internet http://www.deru.net
* bizAZ Magazine http://www.bizaz.com
* Webwaders.com http://www.webwaders.com
* Stealthmode Partners http://www.stealthmode.com
* Fiber Reflections http://www.fiberreflections.com
* Business Journal of Phoenix http://phoenix.bcentral.com
* The Company Legal Plan http://www.thecompanylegalplan.com
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