From plug-discuss-bounces@lists.phxlinux.org Wed May 6 19:25:06 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lurker@lists.phxlinux.org Delivered-To: lurker@lists.phxlinux.org Received: from phxlinux.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phxlinux.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CFEF32A0007; Wed, 6 May 2020 19:25:04 -0700 (MST) X-Original-To: plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org Delivered-To: plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org Received: from mail-io1-f50.google.com (mail-io1-f50.google.com [209.85.166.50]) by phxlinux.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31DA932A0004 for ; Wed, 6 May 2020 19:25:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-io1-f50.google.com with SMTP id z2so2693085iol.11 for ; Wed, 06 May 2020 19:25:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=butash-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=inSWN3Xp3rpd5fvoeJpaGlPM3apXTMx4XAdpilustEg=; b=mrTuFfLK8QdbkSIrGby8j8lE4pWVFaYutyB7Y3kuGqazRGP73ALP26U+waMzKvSCOe 6z2s7q+XrkbLW6doQ+LT4zbCjufBWHeXINEmL1tpAq95zV9ssY1VvjO8tZVq5A9onB97 XEJTNC7oRGThOQAB3hu9R3vSY2mPBqUNNftw2yHOt/q/3/OLo90lp6XEMrfqtCtenpz4 UtCWJoP8GMFJkkNznrd6alIG9xC492+I5i59NnTSLvukqG6E4jpS11mBR2PRXaVPAwxq ZiXHazlcY1IbxLGPle+KeeIBet7VbunZsFnS/KiMb+cPNSXy/HaJprTMPN7H/AMjcz2a iPsw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=inSWN3Xp3rpd5fvoeJpaGlPM3apXTMx4XAdpilustEg=; b=gOHVUqOTqM9bE5/i2yHmxqsMjd7n4O1SCy9YyF+Uz0NAnXe0z2xmay4xlPpjapByzK HicfCdaIBrnGxuQCvw48cmKt1BcbQ3Dkr6DojQWapmicqmbV/ncMH5aUZg1soicN57q4 tXs4d6nv6oOAbffXRKcl24yKRml6TwCx1YH2oPaVWaOw+Q6XD2pGO3dsKnugrouciEer S9dESVowGXeFTFc2EbHCxpY5/0jilDz5wXUEqXzbwFAp9h/CK3xgOSHsbs02AkyOVJRi dcYZq1ddBTT5572nirPRacTDZZWY8A2a/rd19D6Vfah8ibLkPKCLSTxf77UCQ4q3bUIZ Cd2A== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZnehobREzviZT84Am1Wzte5bpMkd7JXXHfEF4O0NQH+t5+xnSs Ci/8mRx+5+lB+5qSBR2KtBvltBSyc6HgGRtyQpief6TN X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIOC3PSkN9RZ8WDTvGsP2qTw3ijCGyhuneSYUN9ronbVC2KAvkR4DQIiDZNW6Vny3zOBV0bQlRkG2f0evB0EUU= X-Received: by 2002:a02:c998:: with SMTP id b24mr11444234jap.23.1588818298846; Wed, 06 May 2020 19:24:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <42e8ce46-46f4-c021-5bbd-bee08d38b766@oscontext.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 19:24:47 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: zoom and teams patches To: Main PLUG discussion list X-BeenThere: plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Main PLUG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , From: Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss Reply-To: Main PLUG discussion list Cc: Michael Butash Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4240984709203188841==" Errors-To: plug-discuss-bounces@lists.phxlinux.org Sender: "PLUG-discuss" --===============4240984709203188841== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000050d7c905a5059647" --00000000000050d7c905a5059647 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting thing, lately I keep powertop up on my laptop to see what is using what power, and oddly Zoom is always one of the worst. It has multiple processes that become top-talkers each for power consumption, hence what will drain your battery quickest. Wonder if others have noticed this using Zoom, even on other platforms. I'm inclined to complain. Not to mention it uses a few gig of ram at a time. That said, I did install M$ Teams linux client again, and it's generally worse power usage. Another go figure. And their stupid app can still only handle one organlization at a time on their electron client. Ugh, they just don't get it. All they have to do is copy slack's client, don't deviate, don't think. So useless, thanks microsoft. -mb On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 8:47 AM Michael Butash wrote: > How's the video sharing and remote control capabilities? That is always > the issue with linux involved. > > Teams, UberConf both don't allow remote control, so they're only > half-functional imho. Even sharing alone, both were also bad about letti= ng > me share one of my 3 displays at a time, only allowing the full 3x displa= y, > or a single application at a time. Zoom and WebEx allow me to show each > display individually. It's like a feature they don't know exists, but is > damn relevant when you have 2-3 displays going at a time. > > I use hangouts still for my sms as my main number *is* gvoice still, but > hangouts, duo, etc have never been too usable, or at least everyone else > just went back to the facebook/instagram/whatsapp cartel, or use their > work's service ala zoom/webex/etc. I don't care about or use video (no o= ne > wants to see me), I just need desktop sharing and remote control to get > their stuff working. > > -mb > > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 7:47 AM Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > >> We have been using the crap out of it at work, and it does a good job, >> simple with minimal extras, but sometimes that's what you need. >> >> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 7:41 AM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss < >> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >> >>> Google has been making news again yesterday/today with Google Meet, >>> giving free 60min conference calls to folks. Not used it yet, but prob= ably >>> should try to see the capabilities. >>> >>> >>> https://www.blog.google/products/meet/bringing-google-meet-to-more-peop= le/ >>> >>> -mb >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 7:24 AM Michael Butash >>> wrote: >>> >>>> > Since when was Cisco known for a "good" UI? >>>> >>>> Right, not in my 20-some years around Cisco. Why I don't do much Cisc= o >>>> anymore. >>>> >>>> Webex finally pulled its head from it's bung a few years back to figur= e >>>> out how to do screen sharing AND remote control even on linux, and so = far >>>> for me, is the only other decent/viable conferencing suite outside zoo= m. I >>>> use it with a few customers regularly. I've read WebEx uses the same = kinds >>>> of "exploiting" the os to launch itself with windows/mac, so same >>>> shenanigans. I'd be really interested in seeing someone rip it apart = for a >>>> security audit. >>>> >>>> Before Zoom and WebEx figured it out, I was using UberConference for >>>> years, they were the original I found that could offer sharing, but ne= ver >>>> offered remote control which is almost necessary in my line of work. = I >>>> really liked the service and company, but no remote control and some o= ther >>>> quirks (no firefox support a big one) drove me off to zoom finally. >>>> >>>> M$ Teams sharing is wonky at best and doesn't allow remote control. >>>> Microsoft basically throws in the service with o365, so many companies= are >>>> using it by default, and it always is painful. They even added a linu= x >>>> client, but it was poop and doesn't allow for multiple orgs ala slack,= or >>>> about any other chat client known to man. Last time I tried it a few >>>> months back, it also began crushing my system's cpu's - quality micros= oft, >>>> thanks for caring about us linux people with your half-assed software. >>>> >>>> GotoMeeting still doesn't know what linux is or cares I think, luckily >>>> no one seems to use them anymore. >>>> >>>> -mb >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:08 PM Donald Mac McCarthy via PLUG-discuss = < >>>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Since when was Cisco known for a "good" UI? >>>>> >>>>> Mac >>>>> >>>>> der.hans via PLUG-discuss wrote on 4/28/20 10:40 PM: >>>>> >>>>> Am 28. Apr, 2020 schw=C3=A4tzte Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss so: >>>>> >>>>> moin moin, >>>>> >>>>> That's not entirely true, I use Webex on Linux, including sharing my >>>>> screen, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yeah, in the end it worked with Firefox. I had to allow some >>>>> JavaScript, >>>>> but no completely 3rd party stuff. >>>>> >>>>> I also didn't need to create an account for authentication. The webex >>>>> join >>>>> meeting UI sucks pretty badly. >>>>> >>>>> ciao, >>>>> >>>>> der.hans >>>>> >>>>> nearly every day for work. It is true that there's no native client, >>>>> though, but the workaround is to use Chrome or a Chrome-based browser= (in >>>>> my case, Chromium), and Webex is able to use the built-in screen shar= ing >>>>> functionality of Chrome to share your screen. The only caveat I've fo= und is >>>>> that you must use Xorg, not Wayland, as Chromium doesn't appear to su= pport >>>>> screen capture on Wayland. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 2020-04-28 15:20, Phil Waclawski via PLUG-discuss wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Webex still does not have a Linux client (not even via web), so it is >>>>> a no go for me except on my phone, and I can't teach class with a >>>>> phone. So still using Zoom. >>>>> Phil W >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:32 AM der.hans via PLUG-discuss >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> moin moin, >>>>> >>>>> I'll be posting something longer and positive about Big Blue Button >>>>> ( >>>>> hopefully today ), but at this point we're probably all stuck using >>>>> a >>>>> variety of tools that others get to choose for us. >>>>> >>>>> Zoom fixed their waiting room security hole and Microsoft is still >>>>> learning how to safely display images. >>>>> >>>>> Both were fixed server side, so the holes should be gone. >>>>> >>>>> https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/zooms-waiting-room-vulnerability/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://www.cyberark.com/threat-research-blog/beware-of-the-gif-accou= nt-takeover-vulnerability-in-microsoft-teams/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Anyone know the state of webex? That's popped up for me due to the >>>>> recurring zoom issues. >>>>> >>>>> ciao, >>>>> >>>>> der.hans >>>>> -- >>>>> # https://www.LuftHans.com https://www.PhxLinux.org >>>>> # It's up to the reader to make the book interesting. >>>>> # An author has only the opportunity to make it uninteresting. - >>>>> der.hans >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> The Maricopa Community Colleges are now operating fully remotely. We >>>>> hope you are safe and healthy during this time. >>>>> My in person and hybrid classes are all meeting at the regular times >>>>> via remote software. Lab and office hours as well. Please check Canva= s >>>>> for the details and links, or email me with further questions. >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:https://li= sts.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Donald "Mac" McCarthy >>>>> Director, Field Operations >>>>> Open Source Context >>>>> +1.602.584.4445 >>>>> mac@oscontext.com >>>>> https://oscontext.com >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> >> >> -- >> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from >> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. >> >> Stephen >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --00000000000050d7c905a5059647 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Interesting thing, lately I keep powertop up on my la= ptop to see what is using what power, and oddly Zoom is always one of the w= orst.=C2=A0 It has multiple processes that become top-talkers each for powe= r consumption, hence what will drain your battery quickest.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Won= der if others have noticed this using Zoom, even on other platforms.=C2=A0 = I'm inclined to complain.=C2=A0 Not to mention it uses a few gig of ram= at a time.

That said, I did install M$ Teams = linux client again, and it's generally worse power usage.=C2=A0 Another= go figure.=C2=A0 And their stupid app can still only handle one organlizat= ion at a time on their electron client.=C2=A0 Ugh, they just don't get = it.=C2=A0 All they have to do is copy slack's client, don't deviate= , don't think.=C2=A0 So useless, thanks microsoft.

-mb


On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 8:47 AM Michael Bu= tash <michael@butash.net> w= rote:
How's the video sharing and remote control capabilities?= =C2=A0 That is always the issue with linux involved.

Teams, UberConf both don't allow remote control, so they're only= half-functional imho.=C2=A0 Even sharing alone, both were also bad about l= etting me share one of my 3 displays at a time, only allowing the full 3x d= isplay, or a single application at a time.=C2=A0 Zoom and WebEx allow me to= show each display individually.=C2=A0 It's like a feature they don'= ;t know exists, but is damn relevant when you have 2-3 displays going at a = time.

I use hangouts still for my sms as my ma= in number *is* gvoice still, but hangouts, duo, etc have never been too usa= ble, or at least everyone else just went back to the facebook/instagram/wha= tsapp cartel, or use their work's service ala zoom/webex/etc.=C2=A0 I d= on't care about or use video (no one wants to see me), I just need desk= top sharing and remote control to get their stuff working.
-mb


<= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 7:47 AM Stephe= n Partington via PLUG-discuss <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:<= br>
We have been using the crap out of it at work, and it does a good job, sim= ple with minimal extras, but sometimes that's what you need.

On We= d, Apr 29, 2020 at 7:41 AM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss <plug-discuss@lists= .phxlinux.org> wrote:
Google has been making news again yester= day/today with Google Meet, giving free 60min conference calls to folks.=C2= =A0 Not used it yet, but probably should try to see the capabilities.


-mb


On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 7:24 AM Michael But= ash <michael@but= ash.net> wrote:
>=C2=A0 Since when was Cisco kn= own for a "good" UI?

Right, = not in my 20-some years around Cisco.=C2=A0 Why I don't do much Cisco a= nymore.

Webex finally pulled its head from it&= #39;s bung a few years back to figure out how to do screen sharing AND remo= te control even on linux, and so far for me, is the only other decent/viabl= e conferencing suite outside zoom.=C2=A0 I use it with a few customers regu= larly.=C2=A0 I've read WebEx uses the same kinds of "exploiting&qu= ot; the os to launch itself with windows/mac, so same shenanigans.=C2=A0 I&= #39;d be really interested in seeing someone rip it apart for a security au= dit.

Before Zoom and WebEx figured it out, I w= as using UberConference for years, they were the original I found that coul= d offer sharing, but never offered remote control which is almost necessary= in my line of work.=C2=A0 I really liked the service and company, but no r= emote control and some other quirks (no firefox support a big one) drove me= off to zoom finally.

M$ Teams sharing is wonk= y at best and doesn't allow remote control.=C2=A0 Microsoft basically t= hrows in the service with o365, so many companies are using it by default, = and it always is painful.=C2=A0 They even added a linux client, but it was = poop and doesn't allow for multiple orgs ala slack, or about any other = chat client known to man.=C2=A0 Last time I tried it a few months back, it = also began crushing my system's cpu's - quality microsoft, thanks f= or caring about us linux people with your half-assed software.

GotoMeeting still doesn't know what linux is or cares = I think, luckily no one seems to use them anymore.

-mb


On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:08 PM Donald Mac McCarthy via= PLUG-discuss <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
Since when was Cisco known for a "good" UI?

Mac

der.hans via PLUG-discuss wrote on 4/28/20 10:40 PM:
Am 28. Apr, 2020=20 schw=C3=A4tzte Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss so:

moin moin,

That's not entirely true, I use Webex on=20 Linux, including sharing my screen,

Yeah, in the end it worked with Firefox. I had to allow some JavaScript,
but no completely 3rd party stuff.

I also didn't need to create an account for authentication. The webex= =20 join
meeting UI sucks pretty badly.

ciao,

der.hans

nearly every day for work. It is true that=20 there's no native client, though,=20 but the workaround is to use Chrome or a Chrome-based browser (in my=20 case,=20 Chromium), and Webex is able to use the built-in screen sharing=20 functionality=20 of Chrome to share your screen. The only caveat I've found is that you= =20 must=20 use Xorg, not Wayland, as Chromium doesn't appear to support screen=20 capture=20 on Wayland.


On 2020-04-28 15:20, Phil Waclawski via PLUG-discuss wrote:
Webex still does not have a Linux client=20 (not even via web), so it is
a no go for me except on my phone, and I can't teach class with a
phone.=C2=A0 So still using Zoom.
Phil W

On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:32 AM der.hans via PLUG-discuss
&l= t;plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

moin moin,

I'll be posting something longer and positive about Big Blue Button
(
hopefully today ), but at this point we're probably all stuck using
a
variety of tools that others get to choose for us.

Zoom fixed their waiting room security hole and Microsoft is still
learning how to safely display images.

Both were fixed server side, so the holes should be gone.

https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/zooms-waiting-room-vul= nerability/


https://www.cyberark.com/threat-research-blog/beware-of-the-gif= -account-takeover-vulnerability-in-microsoft-teams/

Anyone know the state of webex? That's popped up for me due to the
recurring zoom issues.

ciao,

der.hans
--
#=C2=A0 https://= www.LuftHans.com=C2=A0=C2=A0 https://www.PhxLinux.org
#=C2=A0 It's up to the reader to make the book interesting.
#=C2=A0 An author has only the opportunity to make it uninteresting. -
der.hans
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--

The Maricopa Community Colleges are now operating fully remotely. We
hope you are safe and healthy during this time.
My in person and hybrid classes are all meeting at the regular times
via remote software. Lab and office hours as well. Please check=20 Canvas
for the details and links, or email me with further questions.
---------------------------------------------------
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--
Donald "Mac" McCarthy
Director, Field Operations
Open Source Context
+1.602.584.4445
mac@oscontext.com
https://oscontext.com
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PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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--
=
A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prev= ent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze = button.

Stephen

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To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/= plug-discuss --00000000000050d7c905a5059647-- --===============4240984709203188841== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tClBMVUct ZGlzY3VzcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QgLSBQTFVHLWRpc2N1c3NAbGlzdHMucGh4bGludXgub3JnClRv IHN1YnNjcmliZSwgdW5zdWJzY3JpYmUsIG9yIHRvIGNoYW5nZSB5b3VyIG1haWwgc2V0dGluZ3M6 Cmh0dHBzOi8vbGlzdHMucGh4bGludXgub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vcGx1Zy1kaXNjdXNz --===============4240984709203188841==--