From plug-discuss-bounces@lists.phxlinux.org Tue Jun 19 23:31:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lurker@lists.phxlinux.org Delivered-To: lurker@lists.phxlinux.org Received: from phxlinux.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phxlinux.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3E9332A0008; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 23:31:58 -0700 (MST) X-Original-To: plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org Delivered-To: plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org Received: from fed1rmfepo102.cox.net (fed1rmfepo102.cox.net [68.230.241.144]) by phxlinux.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A67432A0007 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 23:31:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from fed1rmimpo306.cox.net ([68.230.241.174]) by fed1rmfepo102.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.28 201-2260-151-171-20160122) with ESMTP id <20180620063156.WKVJ4225.fed1rmfepo102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo306.cox.net> for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 02:31:56 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.93] ([68.231.77.56]) by fed1rmimpo306.cox.net with cox id 0uXv1y0071CtH6C01uXwGg; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 02:31:56 -0400 X-CT-Class: Clean X-CT-Score: 0.00 X-CT-RefID: str=0001.0A090211.5B29F4DC.0021, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CT-Spam: 0 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=EqCilWUA c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=jqS+6I8zBMlPkxpEjG506g==:117 a=jqS+6I8zBMlPkxpEjG506g==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=5hJGLcC-AAAA:8 a=xKcrbFdgAAAA:8 a=qd1UI2nrAAAA:8 a=KyeeKe4HPDdF4Ymgwf0A:9 a=0yDFx7g7JPa0EU1A:21 a=NR3qyt7lAOJHQwXp:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Dwqyh0RuL3QA:10 a=uVYtK3hYPFriUw7y:21 a=GDcXbNb1-Hvd0F-h:21 a=JnmkAy2vu0RmlFh4:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=1m8M9kipo90R_sLbHh6u:22 a=4CbDXKfiEl2k451DeNJ_:22 a=Rf78iB88kbcEjsXYuAON:22 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Authentication-Results: cox.net; auth=pass (PLAIN) smtp.auth=vodhner@cox.net From: Victor Odhner Message-Id: <9CB39B46-BC8C-45B0-B3F8-5C51451EA352@cox.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) Subject: Re: Cheap new Linux laptop advice? Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 12:36:05 -0700 References: To: Main PLUG discussion list In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-BeenThere: plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Main PLUG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Main PLUG discussion list Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1167233024665223282==" Errors-To: plug-discuss-bounces@lists.phxlinux.org Sender: "PLUG-discuss" --===============1167233024665223282== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_49986229-B050-478F-8A4F-880000E764B8" --Apple-Mail=_49986229-B050-478F-8A4F-880000E764B8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread! My friend Tom also appreciates the concern. I=E2=80=99ll feed back what I=E2=80=99ve collected from this so far, but = first I should explain why $200s and 4GB memory is not as stupid as it = might seem. Tom=E2=80=99s business is going out and tuning pianos, or providing = appraisals for sale. His use of a computer is: (a) using email to communicate with clients; (b) preparing quotes and appraisal documents using Libre Office; (c) printing those documents; (d) working with simple spreadsheets. (e) some web browsing. So 4GB should be just fine. He=E2=80=99s not the kind to get impatient = over swap time. He uses an external disk so doesn=E2=80=99t need to = store lots of history in the laptop. The only real requirement is that = the computer keeps ticking! Tips I=E2=80=99m looking at: Stephen, re: Latitude i5/i7: Tom does carry his laptop around, rugged is = good. In fact, we may be onto one of these: ... Feature Marketing =E2=80=94 suggested by Phil.Waclawski. They have Dell Latitude i7 E6330 13.3=E2=80=9D for $169.00, I think a = year warranty. I chatted with them. We *may* run over there and close a deal, maybe = with some upgrades. This place seems pretty solid, they say they sell a lot of linux = computers to local students, whose teachers have sent them repeat = business over several years; some local business, but they do most of = their business out of state. Most of the computers come from big = companies. Comments? They=E2=80=99re in the Scottsdale Airport area, about 8 miles east of = me. Resell Electronics =E2=80=94 suggested by Todd.=20 Interesting, I just called them up at 877-726-0104. Their web site = doesn=E2=80=99t show inventory because they do most of their business on = ebay. Walk-ins are welcome, at 850 W Lincoln St. Door 1 in Phoenix, that=E2=80=99= s off 7th Ave just south of the bridge over the railroad tracks. They = have a computer there where you can search what=E2=80=99s in their = inventory, but the stuff is in their warehouse and you don=E2=80=99t see = it till you buy it. I think I=E2=80=99ll run down there tomorrow. Fry=E2=80=99s deal of the week: HP 11-y010nr, 11.6" Stream Laptop = Celeron N3060, 4GB, 32GB eMMC, $199. The good point here is solid state = and the fact that it=E2=80=99s new, but Fry=E2=80=99s service is = horrible in my experience and I don=E2=80=99t like the idea of sending = things away for=20 Stephen, re: thinkpad: I=E2=80=99m biased against Corporate China, but I = hear good things about thinkpad with Linux. Trent & Stephen have reinforced my feeling against current ChromeBook. = And prices aren=E2=80=99t all that great either, if you do some = shopping. Eric, we=E2=80=99re in the Paradise Valley area of Phoenix. If we should = run into an ongoing warranty hassle you=E2=80=99re totally right about = distance. Since Feature Marketing is right here, that is a plus for me. = But I don=E2=80=99t mind driving around a bit. (Where are you?) Eric, re Red 7: I haven=E2=80=99t heard much mention of them since they = started some 20 years ago, but yes, I see redsevenlinux.com: they seem = to still be in business, and it looks like a good business model. But = either their site has been owned, or they lack focus: Computer solutions = are mixed with a lame porn story and big-cock talk on their front page. = Looks a tad unstable. I think Somebody off-line mentioned Data Doctors so I dropped in there. = The main guy at that store gave me a friendly lecture on using computers = that someone else got rid of, like trade-in cars at a dealership. I = spent years running second hand cars into the ground, so that isn=E2=80=99= t too convincing to me; but I have also bought one used PC from a repair = shop that turned out to be a total lemon, and I wasted money on a new = battery that didn=E2=80=99t help, so that carries some weight. Thanks, Victor ________________________ On 20180614, at 15:15, Carruth, Rusty wrote: Personally, 4G is not QUITE enough RAM. (Disclaimer - I have 16G on = both my personal laptop and my work laptop. I used to have 4G on my = work laptop, bah humbug) =20 My wife=E2=80=99s laptop has 4G, and has to kill off firefox every once = in a while due to its apparent memory leak. However, I=E2=80=99ve got = 16 G at work running windows, and every few days *I* have to kill my = firefox because it is taking around 14G (or at least guess which window = is causing the leak)=E2=80=A6. =20 (Ok, yes, I=E2=80=99m a heavy user. I confess. (Is there a group for = that?) ) =20 We=E2=80=99re using Lenovo at work, and a T410 worked fine (as fine as = it can with only 4G - but all the hardware worked ok as I remember). 4G = max RAM, I think, but I think there=E2=80=99s a T420 or something that = takes more RAM. =20 I=E2=80=99ve had relatively good luck in the old days with Dell = (Inspiron 8000 or something like that?), but YMMV.=20 =20 The only laptops I=E2=80=99ve got personal experience that I know work = fine (again, ignoring memory) are: =20 My wife=E2=80=99s, model and so forth forgotten. If you care I can go = look =20 My personal Alienware, which is WAY outside the price range. The only = real issue with it was: you need a recent distro (Mint 17 didn=E2=80=99t = work well, Mint 18 worked fine). =20 Lenovo ThinkPad T410. Used with an older Mint, as I remember everything = worked. =20 I just realized that I don=E2=80=99t think I=E2=80=99ve run Linux on my = ThinkPad, so =E2=80=98never mind=E2=80=99 on that one, sorry. =20 =20 =20 Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 2:59 PM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Cheap new Linux laptop advice? =20 A friend needs a cheap Linux laptop for light duty business work: Libre Office, printing via USB connection, WIFI, email, and light = browsing. =20 His business (piano tuning) hangs on this. He would like the provider to be established with a decent reputation, = whether the computer is new or refurbished.=20 =20 His cap is $400 but he would prefer closer to $200 . . . =20 Refurbish? In past discussions here, I=E2=80=99ve seen references in the = past of a good refurb provider in town. How well established are they, = what=E2=80=99s their batting average? =20 New? I see: =20 At Amazon: *Dell Inspiron at Amazon for $205, 11.6" HD Celeron N3060, 4GB RAM32 eMMC HDD. *ASUS VivoBook E203NA-YS03 $199, 11.6=E2=80=9D Featherweight design Intel Dual-Core Celeron N3350 2.4GHz processor, 4GB DDR3 RAM, 64GB EMMC Storage, App based Windows 10 S =20 At Fry=E2=80=99s Electronics: * HP 14-ax030nr, 14" Stream Laptop With Intel Celeron N3060 Processor, 4GB Memory, 64GB eMMC and Windows 10 =20 Chromebook? I see Chromebooks under $250. * Scrub & convert to Linux? * USB ports to run a printer and external backup disk? * Storage to run Libre writer + mail client + light surfing? =20 He doesn=E2=80=99t want to entrust all his data to Google, and is happy = with Linux. =20 Any specific suggestions would be very welcome. =20 Thanks, Victor =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org = To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss = --Apple-Mail=_49986229-B050-478F-8A4F-880000E764B8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this = thread!
My friend Tom also appreciates the = concern.

I=E2=80= =99ll feed back what I=E2=80=99ve collected from this so far, but first = I should explain why $200s and 4GB memory is not as stupid as it might = seem.

Tom=E2=80=99s business is going out and tuning pianos, or = providing appraisals for sale. His use of a computer is:
  (a) using email to communicate with clients;
  (b) preparing quotes and appraisal documents using = Libre Office;
  (c) printing those = documents;
  (d) working with simple = spreadsheets.
  (e) some web = browsing.
So 4GB should be just fine. He=E2=80=99s = not the kind to get impatient over swap time. He uses an external disk = so doesn=E2=80=99t need to store lots of history in the laptop. The only = real requirement is that the computer keeps = ticking!

Tips I=E2=80=99m looking at:

Stephen, re: Latitude i5/i7: Tom does carry his laptop = around, rugged is good.
In fact, we may be onto one = of these: ...

Feature Marketing =E2=80=94 suggested = by Phil.Waclawski.
They have Dell Latitude = i7 E6330 13.3=E2=80=9D for $169.00, I think a year warranty.
I chatted with them. We *may* run over there and close a = deal, maybe with some upgrades.
This place seems = pretty solid, they say they sell a lot of linux computers to local = students, whose teachers have sent them repeat business over several = years; some local business, but they do most of their business out of = state. Most of the computers come from big companies. = Comments?
They=E2=80=99re in the Scottsdale Airport = area, about 8 miles east of me.

Resell Electronics =E2=80=94 suggested = by Todd. 
Interesting, I just = called them up at 877-726-0104. Their web site doesn=E2=80=99t show = inventory because they do most of their business on ebay.
Walk-ins are welcome, at 850 W Lincoln St. Door 1 in = Phoenix, that=E2=80=99s off 7th Ave just south of the bridge over the = railroad tracks. They have a computer there where you can search = what=E2=80=99s in their inventory, but the stuff is in their warehouse = and you don=E2=80=99t see it till you buy it. I think I=E2=80=99ll run = down there tomorrow.

Fry=E2=80=99s deal of the week: HP = 11-y010nr, 11.6" Stream Laptop Celeron N3060, 4GB, 32GB eMMC, $199. The = good point here is solid state and the fact that it=E2=80=99s new, but = Fry=E2=80=99s service is horrible in my experience and I don=E2=80=99t = like the idea of sending things away for 

Stephen, re: = thinkpad: I=E2=80=99m = biased against Corporate China, but I hear good things about thinkpad = with Linux.

Trent & Stephen have reinforced my feeling against = current ChromeBook. And prices aren=E2=80=99t all that great either, if = you do some shopping.

Eric, we=E2=80=99re in the Paradise Valley area of Phoenix. = If we should run into an ongoing warranty hassle you=E2=80=99re totally = right about distance. Since Feature Marketing is right here, that is a = plus for me. But I don=E2=80=99t mind driving around a bit. (Where are = you?)

Eric, re = Red 7: I haven=E2=80=99t heard much mention of them since they started = some 20 years ago, but yes, I see redsevenlinux.com: they seem to still be in business, and = it looks like a good business model. But either their site has been = owned, or they lack focus: Computer solutions are mixed with a lame porn = story and big-cock talk on their front = page. Looks a tad unstable.

I think Somebody off-line mentioned = Data Doctors so I dropped in there. The main guy at that store gave me a = friendly lecture on using computers that someone else got rid of, like = trade-in cars at a dealership. I spent years running second hand cars = into the ground, so that isn=E2=80=99t too convincing to me; but I have = also bought one used PC from a repair shop that turned out to be a total = lemon, and I wasted money on a new battery that didn=E2=80=99t help, so = that carries some weight.

Thanks,
Victor
________________________

On 20180614, at 15:15, = Carruth, Rusty <Rusty.Carruth@smartm.com> wrote:

Personally, 4G is not QUITE enough = RAM.  (Disclaimer - I have 16G on both my personal laptop and my = work laptop.  I used to have 4G on my work laptop, bah humbug)
 
My wife=E2=80=99s = laptop has 4G, and has to kill off firefox every once in a while due to = its apparent memory leak.  However, I=E2=80=99ve got 16 G at work = running windows, and every few days *I* have to kill = my firefox because it is taking around 14G (or at least guess which = window is causing the leak)=E2=80=A6.
 
(Ok, yes, I=E2=80=99m a = heavy user.  I confess.  (Is there a group for that?) )
 
We=E2=80=99re using = Lenovo at work, and a T410 worked fine (as fine as it can with only 4G - = but all the hardware worked ok as I remember).  4G max RAM, I = think, but I think there=E2=80=99s a T420 or something that takes more = RAM.
 
I=E2=80=99ve had = relatively good luck in the old days with Dell (Inspiron 8000 or = something like that?), but YMMV. 
 
The only laptops I=E2=80=99= ve got personal experience that I know work fine (again, ignoring = memory) are:
 
My wife=E2=80=99s, = model and so forth forgotten.  If you care I can go look
 
My personal Alienware, = which is WAY outside the price range.  The only real issue with it = was:  you need a recent distro (Mint 17 didn=E2=80=99t work well, = Mint 18 worked fine).
 
Lenovo ThinkPad = T410.  Used with an older Mint, as I remember everything = worked.
 
I just realized that I = don=E2=80=99t think I=E2=80=99ve run Linux on my ThinkPad, so =E2=80=98nev= er mind=E2=80=99 on that one, sorry.
 
 
 
Sent: Thursday, = June 14, 2018 2:59 PM
To: Main PLUG discussion = list
Subject: Cheap new Linux laptop = advice?
 
A friend needs a cheap Linux laptop for = light duty business work:
  Libre Office, printing via USB = connection, WIFI, email, and light browsing.
 
His business (piano tuning) hangs on = this.
He would like the provider to be = established with a decent reputation, whether the computer is new or = refurbished. 
 
His cap is $400 but = he would prefer closer to $200 . . .
 
Refurbish? In past discussions = here, I=E2=80=99ve seen references in the past of a good refurb provider = in town. How well established are they, what=E2=80=99s their batting = average?
 
New? I see:
 
 At Amazon:
*Dell Inspiron at Amazon for $205, 11.6" HD = Celeron N3060,
    4GB RAM32 eMMC HDD.
*ASUS VivoBook E203NA-YS03 $199, 11.6=E2=80=9D Featherweight = design
    Intel Dual-Core Celeron = N3350 2.4GHz processor,
    4GB = DDR3 RAM, 64GB EMMC Storage, App based Windows 10 S
 
At Fry=E2=80=99s Electronics:
* HP 14-ax030nr, 14" Stream Laptop With Intel Celeron N3060 = Processor,
    4GB Memory, 64GB eMMC = and Windows 10
 
Chromebook? I see Chromebooks under = $250.
* Scrub & convert to Linux?
* USB ports to run a printer and external backup disk?
* Storage to run Libre writer + mail client + light = surfing?
 
He doesn=E2=80=99t want to entrust all his data to = Google, and is happy with Linux.
 
Any specific suggestions would be very welcome.
 
Thanks,
Victor
 
 
 
 
 
---------------------------------------------------
PLUG-discuss = mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change = your mail settings:
http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss

= --Apple-Mail=_49986229-B050-478F-8A4F-880000E764B8-- --===============1167233024665223282== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tClBMVUct ZGlzY3VzcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QgLSBQTFVHLWRpc2N1c3NAbGlzdHMucGh4bGludXgub3JnClRv IHN1YnNjcmliZSwgdW5zdWJzY3JpYmUsIG9yIHRvIGNoYW5nZSB5b3VyIG1haWwgc2V0dGluZ3M6 Cmh0dHA6Ly9saXN0cy5waHhsaW51eC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9wbHVnLWRpc2N1c3M= --===============1167233024665223282==--