There was no judgement in my statements - just observations and arithmetic.  Nor am I making any assertion about value - indeed, for my current role, my value is only determined by the lack of Eric Snowden type of security breaches.

If you want to hear judgements, I can digress on how government-backed, guaranteed, student loans inflated the price of education, and how the government should have never gotten involved with it and they shouldn't have nationalized it,  but I won't :)

Funny you should mention the competition.  I had a friend from Singapore who had to go to England for her Undergraduate degree and then to the US for her Graduate because she couldn't get into college in Singapore.

I have been a staunch supporter of the college system in this country, but I work with people who have no college, and some of us have Graduate degrees.  For the field I'm in, one could self-learn and avoid college.  And as I retrain for my next career, I have also returned to college and am becoming very disillusioned.  The curriculum is teaching tool sets rather than concepts, and at this point, I can pick up some vendor training and certifications for free and some 4-day industry workshops for the same price as a 3 semester hour class.  So why should I go to college?

Regards,

George Toft

On 7/7/2023 2:39 PM, trent shipley via PLUG-discuss wrote:

:So you're saying the Indians and Argientinans obviously deserved the job more than you since they would do the same work for less money?  Also, why would an American be better at the job than someone from anywhere else?  Or are you saying you are better than most of your peers in general, you're part of the 20% of your profession who generate 80% of the value.  I mean the competition to get into a third-world government university is fierce, especially if it's ranked.  The selectivity of admission rates match MIT and Stanford, theoretically Indian and Chinese computer scientists as a population should outperform their European, and even more their American competition.

On Fri, Jul 7, 2023 at 2:29 PM George Toft via PLUG-discuss <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:

The only shortage that exists is technical people with Bachelors Degrees
willing to work for minimum wage.

Case in point.  My employer is required to post HR crap in the public
spaces (break rooms).  One of the posts showed Tata Consultancy was
providing a DBA for $66K/year.  Tata takes 1/3 (typical), so the
resource is getting $44K/year ($22/hr).  My kids make more than that
with a High School education.  This is what the young people are
competing against, so why go into this field?

Another case in point.  My job got outsourced to Argentina and the
resources were getting $6/hr.  I later heard it got raised to $10/hr. 
That was still 1/4 of what I was making.  Even if the Argentinians
screwed up and had to rework a task, the company still saved 50% over
hiring an American on that task, and they are elated at the cost savings.

Regards,

George Toft

On 6/7/2023 3:29 PM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss wrote:
> On 2023-06-07 13:59, James Mcphee via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>> Generally, if I hear it from cable news, there's a good chance it's
>> just someone drumming up support for something.  In this case, we'll
>> probably hear about some kind of H1B system to make sure the new fabs
>> get all the people they need, etc.  Same deal as when I was working at
>> a company that got bought by Dell, and they failed to retain most of
>> the new employees because they didn't have a structure that worked
>> with professionals.  Suddenly you saw Michael Dell doing an interview
>> on CNBC about the need to extend H1B 'cause they aren't getting enough
>> workers.  At the very least, there's plenty of incentive to drive down
>> labor costs.  And with the halts for new housing going out, there is a
>> LOT of incentive to manipulate the market.
>>
>> Am I being paranoid?  I probably need to touch more grass.
>
> Are you getting too paranoid?  Maybe not.  I quit following the news
> because I think most are fearmongering and not talking and working on
> the real problems.
>
> I personally do not like the H1B visas because I do not think they are
> necessary. If there is really a shortage of tech workers then why is
> there not a few major tech universities?  Why does Gates exploit the
> H1B and not create a really great tech university? And why do the
> politicians allow all of this?
>
> We have all we need right here in our 50 states, so why do we not do
> things that benefit ourselves and possibly others?
>
> These people like Michael Dell, Bill Gates, etc have forgotten where
> they came from.
>
> QUESTION?
>
> I understand TSMC produces the most chips in the world, and is located
> in Taiwan .  Where did they get that technology and who paid for that
> technology?

>
>
>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 1:15 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss
>> <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Don't believe everything you read on the internet.  I've read that
>>> Abraham Lincoln blames Donald Trump for giving the gun to John
>>> Wilkes Booth.
>>>
>>> On 6/6/23 17:45, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>>>> Chip maker TSMC is moving to chandler and I have read they are a
>>>> sweatshop....
>>>>
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>>
>> --
>> James McPhee
>> jmcphe@gmail.com
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