30 mins is plenty for a test. Try to get sensors output just before a crash On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 4:25 PM, Michael wrote: > how long do you want me to run glmark2 for? Forever is not feasible! > > On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 7:22 PM, Michael wrote: > >> as for the shutoff point everything that had anything to do with cutting >> power was already diabled >> >> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Michael wrote: >> >>> $ sensors >>> radeon-pci-0100 >>> Adapter: PCI adapter >>> temp1: +68.0°C >>> >>> k10temp-pci-00c3 >>> Adapter: PCI adapter >>> temp1: +45.1°C (high = +70.0°C) >>> (crit = +72.0°C, hyst = +70.0°C) >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Brien Dieterle >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Well, it might be protecting your computer but if it is too low it will >>>> just be annoying. >>>> You still need to run sensors and get those numbers if you haven't yet: >>>> >>>> https://askubuntu.com/questions/15832/how-do-i-get-the-cpu-temperature >>>> >>>> If your machine is legitimately overheating you need to address that >>>> with fans and ventilation, etc. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:59 PM, Michael wrote: >>>> >>>>> if there is a shutoff point you did say disable it? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:56 PM, Brien Dieterle >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Well, you're on the right track. Try to isolate whether glmark alone >>>>>> can crash it, or if you need stress as well. Then try opening up your >>>>>> case and point a fan in there. >>>>>> Also don't forget to check the BIOS for thermal management events >>>>>> that might be causing the shutdown/reboot. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:52 PM, Michael wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> never mind..... I ran glmark around 5 minutes and then stress. that >>>>>>> crashed the machine! Not a nice reboot (like what it does with dt) but a >>>>>>> power failure outage, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:41 PM, Michael wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> and if glmark2 doesn't crash it run stress the same amount of time? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Michael wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> how long do I let glmark2's pretty horse rotate? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:36 PM, Michael wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> okay >>>>>>>>>> ` >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Brien Dieterle >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'd wait. If stress alone doesn't crash, run glmark2 by >>>>>>>>>>> itself. If glmark2 doesn't crash, run them both at the same time. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:01 PM, Michael >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> run this now or after stress completes? >>>>>>>>>>>> ? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 5:59 PM, Brien Dieterle < >>>>>>>>>>>> briend@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, not yet ;-). If it doesn't crash, you might need to >>>>>>>>>>>>> stress the graphics card as well with one of these tools: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.pcsuggest.com/gpu-benchmarking-and-stress-testin >>>>>>>>>>>>> g-in-linux/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So maybe kick off both stress and >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> glmark2 --run-forever >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 2:55 PM, Michael >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> if it doesn't crash I'll start hounding the darktable forums. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Michael >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just started..... lets see what happens >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Brien Dieterle < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> briend@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Forget darktable for now. Did you run stress test for more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than 10 seconds? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This will run a stress test for 30 minutes: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stress --cpu 8 --io 4 --vm 2 --hdd 2 --timeout 1800s >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you can get it to crash with just this stress program, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then it has nothing to do with darktable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Michael >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no sensors running and as for it panicing when warm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes it panics after I run dt 2 minutes after it had been shut down an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hour and doesn't panic even though dt had run10 minutes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Brien Dieterle < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> briend@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Check your bios settings for hardware monitoring and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temperature limits. You may have it set with a maximum temperature so the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine panics when it's just warm. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Try raising this number or disabling the feature entirely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But first check your sensors by installing a temperature >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> monitoring program >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2017 1:04 PM, "Michael" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is sooo ify! I just ran it for like 10 minutes with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no crashes whereas before I had just started the computer and ran dt for 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes and it crashed. Then I restarted and I had a repeat performance of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 2 minute thing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Michael < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmike1@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> $ stress --cpu 8 --io 4 --vm 2 --vm-bytes 128M >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --timeout 10s >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stress: info: [7571] dispatching hogs: 8 cpu, 4 io, 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vm, 0 hdd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stress: info: [7571] successful run completed in 10s >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know what that was suppossed to tell me but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there it is. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:36 PM, Michael < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmike1@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am experiencing no slowness. It is like the days >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where you had a power switch on the back of your computer... or it is like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a hard reboot. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:33 PM, Stephen Partington < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cryptworks@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OpenCL in darktable mainly impacts rendering. it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should have no effect on on system or ram consumption unless you are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experiencing slowness during render cycles. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Michael < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmike1@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You know.... I'm having trouble running darktable. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that after I start it it runs a few minutes and then reboots the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer. Probably because I do not have a GPU (I don't think). Then I saw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this thread and thought that I'd give that a try. So it seems I can not run >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chrome and darktable at the same time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ___ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'lspci' shows that my graphics card is : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV770 [Radeon HD 4850] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and 'lspci|grep gpu' returned an empty set >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (if I did that correctly) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so I suppose the cheapest way to fix this is to get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a gpu.... correct? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Carruth, Rusty < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rusty.Carruth@smartm.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In my experience, it’s almost always Firefox taking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of memory. (Or Chrome, or whatever web browser you’re using). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with Mr B, run top or htop and see what’s, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well, on top ;-) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rusty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: SMART_HRS_RGB] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rusty Carruth | Customer Support | *rusty.carruth@smarth.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * | http://www.smarth.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: linkedin] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> twitter] See the new >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M4[image: cid:image004.jpg@01D348E7.AF930710] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See us on Storage Search >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.storagesearch.com/smart2.html >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 510-624-5391 <(510)%20624-5391> | Fax: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 480-926-5579 <(480)%20926-5579> | 1325 N. Fiesta >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blvd. Suite 101 Gilbert, Az. 85233 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* PLUG-discuss [mailto:plug-discuss-bounces@l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ists.phxlinux.org] *On Behalf Of *Michael Butash >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 29, 2017 10:05 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Main PLUG discussion list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: computer slow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I ever have that, it's usually because of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something with a memory leak, or desktop graphic compositing is degrading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before you reboot, see if you can ssh into it from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another computer and check htop (or just top all you have), see if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something is consuming all your memory or cpu. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Desktop compositors are all shite from what I can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell (including windoze), they're all just a varying degree of broken when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you push them, or just have a slow (or buggy) video card. Depending on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your desktop environment of choice, try turning down graphics options, or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabling the compositor all together to see if it helps stability. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -mb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 3:41 AM, Michael < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmike1@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm almost certain that in my bag of tricks I had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instructions on 'resetting' my computer when it started acting weird but I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't find them. Riddle me this: I try to leave the computer on 24/7 (maybe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I shouldn't do that) and twice so far I come up to it and it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-responsive or really slow to respond. Anyone know how to fix this? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> snooze button. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stephen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> :-)~MIKE~(-: >> > > > > -- > :-)~MIKE~(-: > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >