as for the shutoff point everything that had anything to do with cutting power was already diabled On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Michael wrote: > $ sensors > radeon-pci-0100 > Adapter: PCI adapter > temp1: +68.0°C > > k10temp-pci-00c3 > Adapter: PCI adapter > temp1: +45.1°C (high = +70.0°C) > (crit = +72.0°C, hyst = +70.0°C) > > > On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Brien Dieterle wrote: > >> Well, it might be protecting your computer but if it is too low it will >> just be annoying. >> You still need to run sensors and get those numbers if you haven't yet: >> >> https://askubuntu.com/questions/15832/how-do-i-get-the-cpu-temperature >> >> If your machine is legitimately overheating you need to address that with >> fans and ventilation, etc. >> >> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:59 PM, Michael wrote: >> >>> if there is a shutoff point you did say disable it? >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:56 PM, Brien Dieterle >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Well, you're on the right track. Try to isolate whether glmark alone >>>> can crash it, or if you need stress as well. Then try opening up your >>>> case and point a fan in there. >>>> Also don't forget to check the BIOS for thermal management events that >>>> might be causing the shutdown/reboot. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:52 PM, Michael wrote: >>>> >>>>> never mind..... I ran glmark around 5 minutes and then stress. that >>>>> crashed the machine! Not a nice reboot (like what it does with dt) but a >>>>> power failure outage, >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:41 PM, Michael wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> and if glmark2 doesn't crash it run stress the same amount of time? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Michael wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> how long do I let glmark2's pretty horse rotate? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:36 PM, Michael wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> okay >>>>>>>> ` >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Brien Dieterle >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'd wait. If stress alone doesn't crash, run glmark2 by itself. >>>>>>>>> If glmark2 doesn't crash, run them both at the same time. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:01 PM, Michael wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> run this now or after stress completes? >>>>>>>>>> ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 5:59 PM, Brien Dieterle >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Well, not yet ;-). If it doesn't crash, you might need to >>>>>>>>>>> stress the graphics card as well with one of these tools: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.pcsuggest.com/gpu-benchmarking-and-stress-testin >>>>>>>>>>> g-in-linux/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So maybe kick off both stress and >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> glmark2 --run-forever >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 2:55 PM, Michael >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> if it doesn't crash I'll start hounding the darktable forums. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Michael >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Just started..... lets see what happens >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Brien Dieterle < >>>>>>>>>>>>> briend@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Forget darktable for now. Did you run stress test for more >>>>>>>>>>>>>> than 10 seconds? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This will run a stress test for 30 minutes: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> stress --cpu 8 --io 4 --vm 2 --hdd 2 --timeout 1800s >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you can get it to crash with just this stress program, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> then it has nothing to do with darktable >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Michael >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no sensors running and as for it panicing when warm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes it panics after I run dt 2 minutes after it had been shut down an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hour and doesn't panic even though dt had run10 minutes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Brien Dieterle < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> briend@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Check your bios settings for hardware monitoring and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temperature limits. You may have it set with a maximum temperature so the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine panics when it's just warm. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Try raising this number or disabling the feature entirely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But first check your sensors by installing a temperature >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> monitoring program >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2017 1:04 PM, "Michael" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is sooo ify! I just ran it for like 10 minutes with no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crashes whereas before I had just started the computer and ran dt for 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes and it crashed. Then I restarted and I had a repeat performance of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 2 minute thing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Michael >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> $ stress --cpu 8 --io 4 --vm 2 --vm-bytes 128M --timeout >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10s >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stress: info: [7571] dispatching hogs: 8 cpu, 4 io, 2 vm, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0 hdd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stress: info: [7571] successful run completed in 10s >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know what that was suppossed to tell me but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there it is. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:36 PM, Michael < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmike1@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am experiencing no slowness. It is like the days where >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you had a power switch on the back of your computer... or it is like a hard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reboot. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 3:33 PM, Stephen Partington < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cryptworks@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OpenCL in darktable mainly impacts rendering. it should >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have no effect on on system or ram consumption unless you are experiencing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slowness during render cycles. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Michael < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmike1@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You know.... I'm having trouble running darktable. It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems that after I start it it runs a few minutes and then reboots the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer. Probably because I do not have a GPU (I don't think). Then I saw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this thread and thought that I'd give that a try. So it seems I can not run >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chrome and darktable at the same time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ___ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'lspci' shows that my graphics card is : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV770 [Radeon HD 4850] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and 'lspci|grep gpu' returned an empty set >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (if I did that correctly) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so I suppose the cheapest way to fix this is to get a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gpu.... correct? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Carruth, Rusty < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rusty.Carruth@smartm.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In my experience, it’s almost always Firefox taking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of memory. (Or Chrome, or whatever web browser you’re using). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with Mr B, run top or htop and see what’s, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well, on top ;-) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rusty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: SMART_HRS_RGB] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rusty Carruth | Customer Support | *rusty.carruth@smarth.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * | http://www.smarth.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: linkedin] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> twitter] See the new M4[image: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cid:image004.jpg@01D348E7.AF930710] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See us on Storage Search >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.storagesearch.com/smart2.html >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 510-624-5391 <(510)%20624-5391> | Fax: 480-926-5579 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <(480)%20926-5579> | 1325 N. Fiesta Blvd. Suite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 101 Gilbert, Az. 85233 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* PLUG-discuss [mailto:plug-discuss-bounces@l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ists.phxlinux.org] *On Behalf Of *Michael Butash >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 29, 2017 10:05 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Main PLUG discussion list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: computer slow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I ever have that, it's usually because of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something with a memory leak, or desktop graphic compositing is degrading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before you reboot, see if you can ssh into it from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another computer and check htop (or just top all you have), see if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something is consuming all your memory or cpu. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Desktop compositors are all shite from what I can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell (including windoze), they're all just a varying degree of broken when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you push them, or just have a slow (or buggy) video card. Depending on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your desktop environment of choice, try turning down graphics options, or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabling the compositor all together to see if it helps stability. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -mb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 3:41 AM, Michael < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmike1@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm almost certain that in my bag of tricks I had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instructions on 'resetting' my computer when it started acting weird but I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't find them. Riddle me this: I try to leave the computer on 24/7 (maybe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I shouldn't do that) and twice so far I come up to it and it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-responsive or really slow to respond. Anyone know how to fix this? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> snooze button. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stephen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> > > > > -- > :-)~MIKE~(-: > -- :-)~MIKE~(-: