What is this bickering? I mean seriously, aren't we all in support of the advancement of Linux. Lisa's event is there to help people learn the capabilities of Linux so isn't that good enough reason to include it on Plug's website?
______________
Lisa, 

to me, being someone who has a good relationship with PLUG and Hans, I 
feel that your post is offensive, not just to Hans, but to everyone who 
considers PLUG to be a positive influence for the greater metro Phoenix 
area. 

Can the functioning of PLUG be improved? Of course, like almost 
everything. I for my part appreciate the work PLUG (and by extension 
Hans) is doing, and given the demands of our individual lives, I believe 
it is commendable! 

Regarding your claims of sexual harassment, you might want to consider 
its definition (which, as you might now, governs the workplace). I found 
this link 
http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm From the 
information I have, it seems unlikely that what you describe would 
qualify for sexual harassment! 

I think your post abundantly shows your displeasure with the way things 
are, and you don't have to repeat it any more. If you have such a low 
opinion of matters relating to PLUG, you always have the options to 
either branch out on your own, or find an organization with which you 
can have a better relationship. 

I wish you lots of success with the hackfest and other efforts you 
undertake, and I hope you are sufficiently motivated by their benefits, 
and can accept others making decisions about calendar entries that you 
disagree with. 

Walter 



On 11/30/2014 08:22 AM, Lisa Kachold wrote: 
> Hans/(All), 

> PLUG (aka Hans [since actually no leadership was ever allowed] is 
> going to have to state the rules under which you are "dismissing" via 
> schedule removal a healthy regular popular venue. 

> PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") is going to have to reference when those rules 
> were published and when they were delivered to me. 

> EVERYONE has historically had their own website, because PLUG does not 
> allow: 

> 1) Specific wording in announcements. 
> 2) Submitting additional announcements and extensive innovative content. 
> 3) Presentation postings. 

> Examples of other historic users (in good standing) with their own 
> websites to support their presentations and community endeavors include: 

> Ryan Rix 
> Alan Dayley 
> Joseph Sinclair 
> Brian Cluff 
> Alexander Henry 

> The PLUG (lack of structure and rules/guidelines) consistent with 
> other cities of comparable sizes (specific examples are Seattle, Los 
> Angeles and Portland) has kept the group from becoming all that a LUG 
> can be. 

> Older retired penguins have devoted thousands of hours and dollars 
> each year purchasing their own equipment for community venues like 
> Installfest without anyone in PLUG "leadership" even getting a 501(c)3 
> rider under another PLUG to allow income tax relief. 

> Here's a long list of past discussions that echo these limitations and 
> issues: 

http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20100205.085425.dbace92f.en.html 

http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20130508.020509.d70d1744.en.html 

http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20090806.163922.37c4d455.en.html 

http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20101108.063046.7219d889.en.html 

> The ramifications of PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") limiting announcements and 
> venues (like the HackFest) that promote continuing educational schools 
> (other than Mesa Community College [where he has been adjunct 
> teacher]) are obvious. 

> The ramifications of PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") "dropping" a 7 year 
> successful event like the HackFest is HUGE. 

> I have been long contacted by members active for many years who want 
> support to backup recommendations to disband the PLUG (or remove 
> "Presidential dictatorship") with a long laundry list of reasons from 
> sexual harassment (Example: Hans raising his wedding ring clad finger 
> to women as they wait to speak with him about PLUG matters during 
> public community events [which I have experienced twice myself]) to 
> outright misuse of funding ( [tee shirts and donations from local 
> businesses] and PLUG interns/students raising money for sister project 
> ABLEConf) as well as inappropriate steering to classes at Mesa 
> Community College during "OpenSource" community venues. 

> I have stayed out of escalation of those issues to other authorities, 
> but "Silence is DEATH" and a Linux Users Group where membership live 
> in threat of social ostracism and promote via "inner circle 
> relationships" (or make decisions like drop a healthy venue without 
> written rules or warning) is nothing more than a "GANG" and is 
> destined to die. 

> 1) Please show me the rules under which removal of the HackFests from 
> the calendar was made? If there was a scheduling issue, why was I not 
> called or allowed to reschedule? Our security community and active 
> interns have been historically very changeable and this could be 
> easily arranged at DeVry University who also provide a rack at OneNeck. 
> 2) Please show me the rules that state posting a discussion to more 
> than one mailing list with the same content is disallowed? It is not 
> on any of the mailing list phxlinux.org <http://phxlinux.org> pages? 

> 3) And while we are talking about it, please show me the rules (in any 
> PLUG) that state that we can't have TWO PLUG EVENTS on the same day? 
> Is that because the website php CMS software won't allow it? [/LAUGH] 

> I have a HackFest iPhone and Android app ready (which can be released 
> in the next week) to submit to Google Play and Apple Store. I will 
> happily leave the phxlinux.org <http://phxlinux.org> and PLUG name out 
> of that code. 

> Thanks for "allowing me" to continue to announce the HackFests on the 
> mailing lists. 

> Happy ThanksGiving 

> On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 1:08 AM, der.hans <PLUGd@lufthans.com 
> <mailto:PLUGd@lufthans.com>> wrote: 
>
>     Am 29. Nov, 2014 schwätzte Lisa Kachold so:

>
>     moin moin Lisa,

>
>         I was curious as to why you have removed the Hackfests (2nd
>         Saturday of
>         every month) afrom the PLUG Calendar?


>
>     You've been acting as a seperate group for years. You have your
>     own web
>     site and mailing list for your group.



>
>     You may continue announcing your events on the list, but please stop
>     cross-posting to multiple lists.

>
>     ciao,

>
>     der.hans


>
>         Hackfests have been going strong since 2008 and have students
>         from ITT and
>         strong support from DeVry where instructors provide extra
>         credit to their
>         security students for attendance.

>
>         DeVry University provides a rack for PLUG use (providing it is
>         actually
>         used in context with student related open source activities)
>         at OneNeck
>         which is populated with a VMWare ESXi 5.5 server, OpenVPN
>         server, Security
>         Onion, Metasploitable and other images for demonstration
>         purposes, all of
>         which has been built entirely with community contributed
>         assets and intern
>         effort.  We contribute Kali CD's for lab demonstration use,
>         promotional tee
>         shirts and shared DefCon videos each year.

>
>         We have a large following of local security professionals,
>         with visits from
>         University of Phoenix, Palo Verde Nuclear, Department of the
>         Army and
>         GoDaddy staff.

>
>         I have received no notice related to any new requirements or
>         change?

>
>         I have posted monthly announcements to the PLUG Announce list
>         since 2008
>         and have never been notified of any other PLUG requirements?

>
>         Please add this great linux security lab venue back to the
>         PLUG Schedule.

>
>         2nd Saturday  of every month 11:00 - 2:00 PM.
>         DeVry University

>
>         Thanks


>
>     -- 
>     # http://www.LuftHans.com/ http://www.PhxLinux.org/
>     #  A Polish friend of mine got an offer for a free account from
>     AOL. The
>     #  login ID was "HELLO" and the passwd "CYMBAL". She says "cymbal"
>     is like
>     #  a Polish word for "sucker". 'Hello sucker', a greeting from
>     AOHell :).





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