With all that is going on in the world and my personal life I want to get back to basics :   Jesus and the U.S.Constitution.  Life has gotten way too complicated. I do not think man was created to live like we do.  I think things were intended to be much simpler.  We need just a handful of rules to live by.  I think a couple simple rules is all we need to make this list work.  Define what the list is about. Is this strictly a Linux list - Only the Linux kernel, or GNU Linux, or all things open source?   That would make everything else "OT:". Then there is the dilemma of security.  When does it became off topic?  Is it on topic when talking about anything open source?  What about when I use my Mozilla browser to connect to a LAMP server and my connection data is captured by a corrupt individual or our corrupt Gov't? Where do I draw that line? This list worked just fine for 13 or 14 years without a lot of rules.  We did have a couple times where people got upset about certain topics, however the list always survived. This is a diverse community that is here for technology.  It may have a focus of Linux, however the community has much greater interests and concerns.  If there was a thread that talked about where to get the best hotdogs or where to get this or that, I might find that interesting even though it would be very off topic.  If you want to talk about satanic stuff that is fine with me also.  I will provide the opposing argument.  When we talk politics it is in relationship to our common interests, or so I would think.  And I would submit is is related to the goals of this list. Technology is being used for evil. That is what makes these conversations relevant to this list. I think it would be a great thing if we were able to put our differences aside and try to work towards real life solutions that may be bigger than Linux.  To me this whole OT issue is ironic.  I tend to like to hear other peoples thoughts.  For instance I am a Christian Conservative and I would really like to have an open and honest conversation with a 99 percenter.  Why?  Because I think we would discover we both have a lot more in common than we might think. I think that is true about most of the people on this list.  I think we all have way more in common than we are willing to acknowledge. We need to come together and start trying to solve some of these problems as a community.  Our world has changed.  We are no longer free to express ourselves without the concern of the Gov't listening.   There is a lot of brain power on this list.  If we ever come together we would be able to do some really cool stuff. So what do you say we make things simpler with less rules and lets start solving problems.  Let's come together as a list and use our strengths to fight evil not each other.   ------------------------ Keith Smith