On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Nathan England <nathan@paysonlinux.org> wrote:

Maybe they understand exactly that they get what they pay for, and want someone like Keith is explaining, which is why they called it a "junior admin" job to begin with...

On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 1:43 PM, keith smith <klsmith2020@yahoo.com> wrote:

I think that is my point. They may find someone who has skills but no record. The new employee spends a year with this company and then leaves because he/she now has a year of documented sys admin experience.

Entry level training ground.

------------------------
Keith Smith

--- On Wed, 4/27/11, Bryan O'Neal <Bryan.ONeal@TheONealAndAssociates.com> wrote:

From: Bryan O'Neal <Bryan.ONeal@TheONealAndAssociates.com>
Subject: Re: Exploitation?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>

Date: Wednesday, April 27, 2011, 1:13 PM

That is a quality counter argument. The next question is do people understand they get what they pay for...

On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 11:20 AM, keith smith <klsmith2020@yahoo.com> wrote:

In the past I would have been upset with such an offering. What I see now is a pathway. While none of us like to see a sys admin job for $10 - $12/hr, most folks would not apply. If this position helps someone move from retail sales, delivering pizza, working at Fry's grocery, ETC. Then this position has value by providing someone a pathway into what they might really like to be doing.

I would imagine whomever takes a position like this will stay just long enough to build a resume that will allow them to move to the next level.

------------------------
Keith Smith

--- On Wed, 4/27/11, Bryan O'Neal <Bryan.ONeal@TheONealAndAssociates.com> wrote:

From: Bryan O'Neal <Bryan.ONeal@TheONealAndAssociates.com>

Subject: Re: Exploitation?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>

Date: Wednesday, April 27, 2011, 8:48 AM

Commentary on the Linux job market seems entirely on topic to me. But
that, is just one mans opinion.
What surprised me is the lack of people countering lisa's argument
with hard examples of how the market has not been comoditised to the
point of removing any since of humanity from the common offering.

On 4/25/11, James Finstrom <jfinstrom@rhinoequipment.com> wrote:
> It already has gone off list someone is abusing their email list. That being
> said my original reply was within the bounds of the discussion if we are
> taking that approach but the personal attack to my email is
> what escalated it. We will simply agree to disagree but abuse of users off
> list is not acceptable PERIOD!
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Stephen <cryptworks@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ok this really needs to go off list..
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:27 PM, James Finstrom <
>> jfinstrom@rhinoequipment.com> wrote:
>>
>>> LOL I am not the one off topic but I am at fault as everyone knows your
>>> 256 shades of bat*** crazy and I made the mistake of pointing it out. I
>>> assume you will take your meds and not hurt yourself or anyone else for
>>> my
>>> mistake....
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Lisa Kachold
>>> <lisakachold@obnosis.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> James,
>>>>
>>>> I accept your apology for the PLUG.
>>>>
>>>> Have a better day.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:51 PM, James Finstrom <
>>>> jfinstrom@rhinoequipment.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am sure It would have been acceptable as a straight relay of the job.
>>>>> What was off topic was the personal commentary to the posters
>>>>> intentions and
>>>>> motivations ie: the subject of this email
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Lisa Kachold
>>>>> <lisakachold@obnosis.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 8:53 AM, keith smith
>>>>>> <klsmith2020@yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think this is a " Jr cabling/desktop monkey" job. The job
>>>>>>> post says "...This position is 90% remote...".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think this is a start up and the owner has everyone work out of
>>>>>>> their home to keep the cost down and they meet at his house.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> About 12 years ago I worked for a consulting company. I was W2 and
>>>>>>> worked from home. He provided my computer, pay, limited benefits,
>>>>>>> and he
>>>>>>> worked out of his home. By doing business this way he was able to
>>>>>>> keep the
>>>>>>> cost of doing business to a minimum. I believe he started on a shoe
>>>>>>> string
>>>>>>> and just stayed there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe this is an opportunity for someone to learn, grow, and get
>>>>>>> some resume material.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>>> Keith Smith
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- On *Mon, 4/25/11, Kevin Fries <kfries6@gmail.com>* wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Kevin Fries <kfries6@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Exploitation?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <
>>>>>>> plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
>>>>>>> Date: Monday, April 25, 2011, 7:31 AM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am not sure I would go directly to exploitation. Though I would
>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>> they are trying to take advantage slightly. All the requirements are
>>>>>>> 1-3
>>>>>>> years. I would assume there is already in place a full admin, so
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> person would likely be a Jr cabling/desktop monkey. Here in Denver
>>>>>>> that job
>>>>>>> would go for 40-45k a year and our tech job market is much stronger
>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>> yours. I lost my job the last day of September last year and started
>>>>>>> my job
>>>>>>> search Oct 1... started a new job Nov 15th, and I was not the first
>>>>>>> to find
>>>>>>> one... but that is Denver. Phoenix is a much tougher nut. So while
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> rates are low, and probably not very realistic, I think exploitation
>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>> bit strong. I bet they find some nice kid 20-22 years old in the
>>>>>>> $15-$18
>>>>>>> range.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>>> On Apr 25, 2011 7:54 AM, "Lisa Kachold"
>>>>>>> <lisakachold@obnosis.com<http://mc/compose?to=lisakachold@obnosis.com>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> > Anyone seen this:
>>>>>>> http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/sad/2341174027.html
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > --excerpt--
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > COMPANY is now hiring a Linux / Windows Systems Admin. This is a
>>>>>>> > Jr.
>>>>>>> Admin
>>>>>>> > role. We are looking for a energetic person who has a basic
>>>>>>> background in
>>>>>>> > administration. This position is 90% remote but you must reside in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> > Phoenix area due to weekly meetings. Please see below for skill
>>>>>>> > set.
>>>>>>> Please
>>>>>>> > do not apply if you are a seasoned admin this is a Jr. positions.
>>>>>>> Pay rate
>>>>>>> > is $10 - $12.50 an hour.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Windows Administration - 1 to 3 years
>>>>>>> > Linux Administration - 1 to 3 years
>>>>>>> > Networking - 1 to 3 years
>>>>>>> > UNIX - is a plus
>>>>>>> > Programing - is a plus
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > * Location: Phoenix Area
>>>>>>> > * Compensation: $10 - $12.50
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > CRITICAL THOUGHT:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 1) How can you require all the same responsibilities in a so-called
>>>>>>> Junior
>>>>>>> > Systems Admin of a regular admin as a rationalization to only pay
>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>> > $12-15 an hour?
>>>>>>> > 2) This company is clearly not a .ORG - seems they have
>>>>>>> mis-registered their
>>>>>>> > domain name?
>>>>>>> > 3) Don't even sec scan their website...
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > But hey, if you want to work from home, this might be a good gig,
>>>>>>> you can
>>>>>>> > work 15 minutes on the hour!
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>> > (503) 754-4452 iPhone
>>>>>>> > (623) 239-3392 Skype
>>>>>>> > (623) 688-3392 Google Voice
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > http://www.it-clowns.com
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > "It took me many years but I have gained access to the root account
>>>>>>> and have
>>>>>>> > removed the user God." -Saros
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, I think this could be a good gig.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We don't have a job posts area anymore or I would have laid her there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> (503) 754-4452 iPhone
>>>>>> (623) 239-3392 Skype
>>>>>> (623) 688-3392 Google Voice
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.it-clowns.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "It took me many years but I have gained access to the root account
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> have removed the user God." -Saros
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> James Finstrom
>>>>> Rhino Equipment Corp.
>>>>> http://rhinoequipment.com
>>>>> Phone: 1-877-RHINO-T1
>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/rhinoequipment
>>>>> Facebook: http://facebook.com/RhinoEquipment
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> (503) 754-4452 iPhone
>>>> (623) 239-3392 Skype
>>>> (623) 688-3392 Google Voice
>>>>
>>>> http://www.it-clowns.com
>>>>
>>>> "It took me many years but I have gained access to the root account and
>>>> have removed the user God." -Saros
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
>> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
>
>
>
> --
> James Finstrom
> Rhino Equipment Corp.
> http://rhinoequipment.com
> Phone: 1-877-RHINO-T1
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/rhinoequipment
> Facebook: http://facebook.com/RhinoEquipment
>

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--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nathan England
I believe in the Constitution and the 4th Amendment. I am innocent and have nothing to hide, but NO agent of the state crosses my threshhold without a valid warrant signed by a judge and properly submitted. If we fail to exercise our rights, we lose them.

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