On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 10:59 PM, Bryan O'Neal
<boneal@cornerstonehome.com> wrote:
I apologize for not having more time, perhaps to dig up
some of my old data. However the methodology went something like
this. Equipment + Install + Configuration + User time cost + Time cost for
upgrades, maintenance, and expansion/changes. Assuming you have an average
size small business. In that small business you have ~40 phones and 50
employees. Each employee gets their own did. ~5 phones are
"executive" (fancier model) and you have two which are for receptions. The
receptions will monitor one of three "main" incoming lines and will need to know
which one has been dialed before they answers. Similarly you will need 3
different dial by name directories which may or may not have some overlapping
people. Each person needs to be able to switch between 3
preprogrammed settings on how their calls are handled. Integration with their
business calendar so the phone system automatically switches between
several settings depending on the individuals availability (in a meeting, out of
office, etc.) is a big plus (ShoreTel does five settings as a base and was
expandable but their was something about the expansion that I can not remember.
It's probably been at least two years since you surveyed Asterisk offerings; it is a FAST moving target. You get all of the above with a standard Asterisk bundle (some of it works differently but accomplishes the same thing); it just has to be set up by someone like me initially (same as shoretel). The settings are a bit more flexible in an Asterisk/Freepbx based system; you get follow-me (call all of my numbers when you call my extension), vmx locator (mini-pbx press 1,2, or 3 to reach different destinations when they reach your voicemail), voicemail to email (I see you mentioned that below). There are other features built in that you didn't mention like built in tele-conference rooms, fax to email, and custom IVR's (menu's) to do things like give people directions and other information. You can build in just about anything. Systems come with standard integration with sip and iax voip; you can add skype. You can even have soft phones that employees can use when traveling when they have enough bandwidth to do so.
ShoreTel also did the integration with Outlook, Lotus, and a half dozen
other applications calendars out of the box, but since they publish their API
you could program your own if you wanted) The business has
10 remote sites to manage.
Some Asterisk Distributions have this, most don't. A few use Sugar CRM to accomplish this kind of functionality. There are MAPI plugins you can use but it's not widely used.
About 10 users will require custom soft
buttons. You hotel desks so that one physical phone may be used by several
people during the course of a day so people need to be able to login and out of
their phones easily. People also need to be able to quickly and easily record
phone calls and manage those recordings.
It is as easy as pressing a few buttons on the phone during a call (*1 on most systems). You can also use the phone as a dictation machine; it sends the resulting message via email.
Voicemail must be integrated into
email. It also needs to be trivial for people to mange DND exception
lists.
Both built in. It's fun to black list telemarketers.
And you need to assume you will change out about 15 employees a
year. You also require 10 departmental voice mail boxes that are
integrated with a personas individual mail box for people who are authorized for
that public box. In addition all equipment must be warranted for ten
years. (etc. etc. etc.) This is what I remember of the PBX
requirements Cornerstone Homes had back in 2005.
Ah.. 2005; Asterisk was very primitive back then and probably WAS more expensive than shoretel. Freepbx as asterisk management portal then and didn't have 1/10th of the features it has now.
Depending on which vendor I buy it from I can get a lifetime warranty for phones for an extra $20/phone usually; that only covers the hardware itself. With Asterisk systems you can pick whatever phone you want from a cheapie $50 phone to an expensive $300 phone; I just did an asterisk installation with all Cisco phones... it turned out nice! Does Shoretel warranty their phones if you don't use them with a Shoretel system? If so I'll gladly use them :)
Running this sort of system the cost of having some one
set it all up, train local non-technical staff on how to maintain this, and
provide support had a total cost of about $20,000 for equipment, install,
and training.
The one place Asterisk lacks right now is training. It is such a fast moving target that there is little end-user documentation out there. I'm in the process of writing my own.
In addition training cost was about 15 min per employee
plus 45 min for the HR department who managed the systems operation. I
originally estimated this at about $2000 of cost for employee time.
My work (I have a job too) has a Cisco/Nortel system and we didn't get any training on it.
In my own installs I provide documentation and train a few people and let them teach others. There are modules for bulk loading extensions in Asterisk but I wouldn't have HR doing it (more like IT).
In
addition I estimated and additional $2000/year of operational
& maintenance cost.
Since it is standard server hardware and linux except for the telephony hardware/software most companie's IT departments could do their own upgrades on the server (CPU/Memory/Motherboard/add disk space). Do you spend $2000/year maintaining your linux web servers/etc? I don't.
In fact cost less then $5 of
my HR departments time to set up a new user and a new phone with custom soft
buttons, voicemail, phone call handling (when should it ring, when should it
roll to an assistant, when should it go to voice mail, which voicemail greeting
should it give, etc), the companies directory, personal directory (usually
integrated with their pim, but it could be via a text file too) and automatic
updates (if using pim integration).
Soft button setup varies by phone. This is probably the same with asterisk. The company I just did used Cisco phones; the company directory comes right out of the Asterisk Database (I wrote the directory services myself). When an extension is added then it magically appears in the directory on their phone.
Now the phone cost about $150, and
with licensing and the estimated cost to house and maintain the equipment
required for voicemail. Of course both those costs are fairly typical when
compared to Asterisk and are moot if just replacing an
employee.
You can find phones cheaper than that but that is a good average amount for a decent voip phone. With Asterisk voicemail storage is built into the server and is not limited to the number of ports/etc like most pbx systems.
Professional support was free for 2 years with 4 hour
service guarantee and $6K per year their after, but no one I interviewed ever
renewed support since the equipment had a lifetime guarantee and was so easy to
set up and maintain. Professional support was $75/hour for remote support
and $150/hour for on premises support up to 6K/year (at which point you
purchased a support contract) if you needed it after your first two years was
over.
You're giving me ideas :) I typically give 6 months support built into the initial installation. It is long enough to work out any issues.
Equipment is warranted for life. All upgrades, patches, etc.
are also free and done by ShoreTel professionals.
I suppose if I over charged for the server and phones and get a warranty from the vendor I could warranty for life. If I were charging 6K/year for support I'd do patches/etc for free too! Does Shoretell keep doing patches and repairs if you don't have a support contract?
I wish I had my information from when I was looking at
Asterisks, but if I recall correctly, the numbers I got from the one asterisk
vender came in at about $18,000 for equipment, install, and configuration.
No training and $150/hour for support; but the first 5 days of
support was free.
This will vary by the vendor that installs the system. Thank you for posting this; I'll probably change a few things!
I just ran a ball park of a dual pri, 40 phone system with 8FXS ports for fax machines, plus one virtual fax to save paper and it came out to $17,500 with 50 hours remote support and 10 hours on site support (training).
The phone server itself was $4k, phones were 6.6k, and labor was 7k.
The server can support 1000 users and 300 concurrent calls.
But that was using $150 phones...polycom 320's are under $100 (there are many phones that cost less).. I could trim out another 3K by choosing a less expensive phone.
They did not offer an inclusive support contract at
the time. While interviewing asterisks owners I got to an average
estimation of about 20 hours a month by in house technical staff
to support the users and maintain the system, plus about 100 hours of
education per tech/year to keep the system updated, secure, and providing
advancing service for the users. So if you have two qualified people (so
one can take a day off some time) then you are looking at about 440
hours. Lets call it 400 hours or about $14,000/year of in house
support cost. Now this may seem like a large amount of time, however
it was the average from the people I interviewed. Though I only included
groups that had not had an outage in the last 2 years. The cost per hour
of telephone outage in the middle of a work day for my employer at the
time was calculated to be approximately $10,000 and one call center I
interviewed averaged 4 hours a year of outage; so I just tossed their estimation
of maintenance time out. Although it was really inside the range of
others, but they were also a larger institution having about 200 phones
attached to the system in three different call centers (funny thing is they
shrank to less then 40 in three years, funny
economy)
How is this different with Shoretel? The same guy that supports the company linux web servers could support the asterisk server.
So, I
have a two year cost of ShoreTel as $26K (actual cost was actually about $35K
including the fax system, but we would have plugged that fax system into any
phone system we would have purchased, save Avaya, which had their own fax
system)
Estimated cost over two years for a Asterisks system was about $45K or
almost twice the cost. This is not to mention I could not find nearly the
refinement of productivity tools or PIM integration.
Ok.. so I throw in an extra 10K so I can pay someone to babysit the client for 2 years.. it's about the same.
What
do you believe a modern cost of installing and maintaining this sort of system
would be today for Asterisks?
About the same (at most) and less typically.
I
know, this is really short and not a full analysis, and I also understand the
number of people supporting asterisks in the valley has increased so my numbers
may be a bit off.
There are a few major vendors right here in town; I'm a reseller for them :)
I wouldn't have any hope of success if I had to build every server myself.
It's just too hard to get the same hardware again and again.
Having them build the server and provide stable predictable hardware is a godsend.
In 2005 there weren't many companies doing asterisk; it just wasn't ready for prime time until 2004 or so.
By the
way, if you already have an experienced ShoreTel person on staff and purchased
ShoreTel equipment off of eBay today from small and mid size companies that have
not survived this economic downturn, then your looking at about $5K in equipment
and licensing costs for the same install.
The initial cost is pretty close either way. The big upside with going with an Asterisk based install is flexibility. You're not locked in to a specific company, phone, hardware vendor, and don't have to pay any licensing fees unles s you buy phones from a vendor and WANT to pay for the license. You can extend and expand the system a lot of ways.
If I go belly up, there are plenty of other companies out there that can provide support. I inherited 3 such systems when a company in the valley stopped supporting their installations when they lost their Asterisk guy. They don't have a contract and I get a call maybe once a year when some retard ISP technician messes up their DHCP server or changes their settings on the router.
In one case I completely rebuilt their installation because it didn't have the modern features they needed and wasn't built on standard software. They instead wrote everything in ruby on rails... when the asterisk API changed I wasn't about to re-write their spaggetti code! Instead I re-implemented their system using standard distributions that other companies could also support. I can't fault that company though... in 2005 when they built it you just couldn't build a multi-tennant system from standard distributions. It is a PITA now but it works.
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