On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 6:48 AM, kitepilot@kitepilot.com <kitepilot@kitepilot.com> wrote:

>> why should my downloads from a P2P network...
Apologies, I think I didn't make this clear.
My customer can (and do) download whatever they want to, what I stop is Joe
Annon downloading P2P stuff FROM my customer's puter.

>> rate limit your customers to their contracted rate and
>> minimize over selling your bandwidth?

This iss a pretty broad and dense statement.
I don't know how may networks (or how big) you manage, but there is more
than just "rate limiting".
Never mind the wireless part...

>> over selling your bandwidth?
That's an even bigger can of worms and escape the purpose of my message,
which is stir the discussion towards "Shaping" :)
Enrique

Shawn Badger writes:

> I normally stay out of these, but I just want to ask why you don't rate
> limit your customers to their contracted rate and minimize over selling your
> bandwidth? I would that would prevent "joe the hacker" from bringing down
> other customers in the first place. I don't have issues with stuff like VoIP
> being given higher priority, but why should my downloads from a P2P network
> suffer for someone watching a youtube video.
>
> just my 2cents
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 4:45 AM, kitepilot@kitepilot.com <
> kitepilot@kitepilot.com> wrote:
>
>> I think that this is being taken out of context...
>> I manage a small wireless network with around a hundred victims...
>> er...
>> CUSTOMERS! :)
>>
>> Being a wireless network, we face challenges that wired networks don care
>> about, and when the traffic spikes, we have to "manage".
>>
>> Let me state in here that we don't do false advertising (in fact most of
>> our
>> customers are word-of-mouth), and we explain people that we "shape" the
>> line.
>>
>> I am not defending Cox and I don't know what they are doing, but having
>> seen
>> how "journalists" makeup overblown aviation news for the sake of "yellowish
>> journalism" (or sometimes blatant ignorance of the subject and laziness to
>> get informed), I don't have any doubt that they will grab a few words from
>> a
>> manager, and run to the nearest keyboard to type away something that
>> "sells"...
>> Unfortunately, "truth" doesn't sell very well...
>>
>> With that said, and after donning my asbestos suit, I want to change one
>> word that probably got misplaced here: Throttle.
>>
>> For all I know (not much indeed), and from what I gather from the obvious
>> ignorance of the reporter (again, nothing new after I see how they convey
>> aviation "news") Cox is not doing "Throttling", Cox is doing "Shaping".
>>
>> You cannot run a network pipe without some kind of management, or
>> everything
>> is going to go Hell.
>>
>> The way this is done, is by inspecting packets to determine priority.
>> VoIP packets will be expedited and FTP packets will be sent after.
>> Latency is not an issue in an FTP transfer.
>> Latency will kill a VoIP connection.
>> At the expense or extending the FTP connection a few seconds.
>>
>> This is not unfair, this is necessary, albeit unpopular...
>>
>> And IS NOT TRIVIAL.
>> In fact, it is complex enough when you can inspect the packets, never mind
>> if you are dealing with an encrypted connection...
>>
>> Finally, even though I don't prevent P2P in "my valley", I do severe or
>> throttle the outbound connections when they become a burden for the
>> network.
>> Most of the network is used by rural people that simply doesn't have other
>> options.
>>
>> I can't just tell them that they can't use Internet just because Joe Hacker
>> downloaded the latest hacked motion picture and 37 thousand hackers over
>> the
>> World are banging in the line THEY (my customers) PAY FOR! to get their
>> share...
>>
>> It's a limited resource.
>> I explain that to my people too...
>>
>> Finally, please understand that I am not defending Cox.
>> But I believe that the whole discussion is falling down the wrong path.
>> Enrique
>>
>> PS: Who knows here about shaping?
>> I need help... :(
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Stephen P Rufle writes:
>>
>> >
>> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/01/cox-opens-up-throttle-for-p2p-non-time-sensitive-traffic.ars
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