Thanks for saying this. I realized that I only needed to run apt as root. I didn't know how to make it so I could do that..... but chatgt did! On Sat, Jun 29, 2024, 5:53 AM Eric Oyen via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > NO WORRIES FROM THIS END RUSTY. > > As a general rule, I use sudo only for very specific tasks (usually > updating my development package tree on OS X) and no where else will I run > anything as root. I have seen what happens to linux machines that run > infected binaries as root and it can get ugly pretty fast. In one case, I > couldn’t take the machine out of service because of other items I was > involved with, so I simply made part of the dir tree immutable after > replacing a few files in /etc. That would fill up the system logs with an > error message about a specific binary trying to replace a small number of > conf files. Once the offending binary was found, it made things easier > trying to disable it or get rid of it. However, after a while, I simply > pulled the drive and ran it through a Dod secure erase and installed a > newer linux bistro on it. I did use the same trick with chattr to make > /bin, /sbin and /etc immutable. That last turned out to be handy as I > caught someone trying to rootkit my machine using a known exploit, only > they couldn’t get it to run because the binaries they wanted to replace > couldn’t be written to. :)Yes, this would be a bit excessive, but over the > long run, proved far less inconvenient than having to wipe and reinstall an > OS. > > -Eric > From the central Offices of the Technomage Guild, security Applications > Dept. > > > > On Jun 28, 2024, at 6:43 PM, Rusty Carruth via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > > > > (Deep breath. Calm...) > > > > I can't figure out how to respond rationally to the below, so all I'm > going to say is - before you call troll, you might want to research the > author, and read a bit more carefully what they wrote. I don't believe I > recommended any of the crazy things you suggest. And I certainly didn't > intend to imply any of that. > > > > On the other hand, it may not have been clear, so I'll just say "Sorry > that what I wrote wasn't clear, but english isn't my first language. > Unfortunately its the only one I know". > > > > And on that note, I'll shut up. > > > > On 6/26/24 15:05, Ryan Petris wrote: > >> I feel like you're trolling so I'm not going to spend very much time on > this. > >> > >> It's been a generally good security practice for at least the last 25+ > years to not regularly run as a privileged user, requiring some sort of > escalation to do administrative-type tasks. By using passwordless sudo, > you're taking away that escalation. Why not just run as root? Then you > don't need sudo at all. In fact, why even have a password at all? Why > encrypt? Why don't you just put all your data on a publicly accessible FTP > server and just grab stuff when you need it? The NSA has all your data > anyway and you don't have anything to hide so why not just leave it out > there for the world to see? > >> > >> As for something malicious needing to be written to use sudo, why > wouldn't it? sudo is ubiquitous on unix systems; if it didn't at least try > then that seams like a pretty dumb malicious script to me. > >> > >> You also don't necessarily need to open/run something for it to run. > IIRC there was a recent image vulnerability in Gnome's tracker-miner > application which indexes files in your home directory. And before you say > that wouldn't happen in KDE, it too has a similar program, I believe called > Baloo. > >> > >> There also exists the recent doas program and the systemd replacement > run0 to do the same. > >> > >> On Wed, Jun 26, 2024, at 12:23 PM, Rusty Carruth via PLUG-discuss wrote: > >>> Actually, I'd like to start a bit of a discussion on this. > >>> > >>> > >>> First, I know that for some reason RedHat seems to think that sudo is > >>> bad/insecure. > >>> > >>> I'd like to know the logic there, as I think the argument FOR using > sudo > >>> is MUCH stronger than any argument I've heard (which, admittedly, is > >>> pretty close to zero) AGAINST it. Here's my thinking: > >>> > >>> Allowing users to become root via sudo gives you: > >>> > >>> - VERY fine control over what programs a user can use as root > >>> > >>> - The ability to remove admin privs (ability to run as root) from an > >>> individual WITHOUT having to change root password everywhere. > >>> > >>> Now, remember, RH is supposedly 'corporate friendly'. As a > corporation, > >>> that 2nd feature is well worth the price of admission, PLUS I can only > >>> allow certain admins to run certain programs? Very nice. > >>> > >>> So, for example, at my last place I allowed the 'tester' user to run > >>> fdisk as root, because they needed to partition the disk under test. > In > >>> my case, and since the network that we ran on was totally isolated from > >>> the corporate network, I let fdisk be run without needing a password. > >>> Oh, and if they messed up and fdisk'ed the boot partition, it was no > big > >>> deal - I could recreate the machine from scratch (minus whatever data > >>> hadn't been copied off yet - which would only be their most recent > run), > >>> in 10 minutes (which was about 2 minutes of my time, and 8 minutes of > >>> scripted 'dd' ;-) However, if the test user wanted to become root > using > >>> su, they had to enter the test user password. > >>> > >>> So, back to the original question - setting sudo to not require a > >>> password. We should have asked, what program do you want to run as > root > >>> without requiring a password? How secure is your system? What else do > >>> you use it for? Who has access? etc, etc, etc. > >>> > >>> There's one other minor objection I have to the 'zero defense' > statement > >>> below - the malicious thing you downloaded (and, I assume ran) has to > be > >>> written to USE sudo in its attempt to break in, I believe, or it > >>> wouldn't matter HOW open your sudo was. (simply saying 'su - myscript' > >>> won't do it). > >>> > >>> And, if you're truly paranoid about stuff you download, you should: > >>> > >>> 1 - NEVER download something you don't have an excellent reason to > >>> believe is 'safe', and ALWAYS make sure you actually downloaded it from > >>> where you thought you did. > >>> > >>> 2 - For the TRULY paranoid, have a machine you use to download and test > >>> software on, which you can totally disconnect from your network (not > >>> JUST the internet), and which has NO confidential info, and which you > >>> can erase and rebuild without caring. Run the downloaded stuff there, > >>> for a long time, until you're pretty sure it won't bite you. > >>> > >>> 3 - For the REALLY REALLY paranoid, don't download anything from > >>> anywhere, disconnect from the internet permanently, get high-tech locks > >>> for your doors, and wrap your house in a faraday cage! > >>> > >>> And probably don't leave the house.... > >>> > >>> The point of number 3 is that there is always a risk, even with > >>> 'well-known' software, and as someone else said - they're watching you > >>> anyway. The question is how 'safe' do you want to be? And how paranoid > >>> are you, really? > >>> > >>> Wow, talk about rabbit hole! ;-) > >>> > >>> 'Let the flames begin!' :-) > >>> > >>> > >>> On 6/25/24 18:50, Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss wrote: > >>>>> wanted sudo not to require a password. > >>>> Please reconsider this... This is VERY BAD security practice. There's > basically zero defense if you happen to download/run something malicious. > >>>> > >>>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2024, at 6:01 PM, Michael via PLUG-discuss wrote: > >>>>> then I remember that a PLUG member mentioned ChatGPT being good at > troubleshooting so I figured I'd give it a go. I sprint about half an hour > asking it the wrong question but after that it took 2 minutes. I wanted > sudo not to require a password. it is wonderful! now I don't have to bug > you guys. so it looks like this is the end of the user group unless you > want to talk about OT stuff. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > >>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >>>>> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------- > >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > >>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >>> --------------------------------------------------- > >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >>> > > --------------------------------------------------- > > PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >