Hi Stephen, That is what I had strongly suspected -- especially if you don't have much experience or you didn't just graduate from a top program. I think I'm getting to the point where I can do more than just little training and test exercises, so it's time to devote some effort to some demonstrable product, even if I were to get an entry level position in the field which satisfied me for a while. (It looks like I might get something soon as a Python web developer ... which would be a step up from writing automated UI tests in VBScript.) Trent On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 9:47 AM Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > I will be brutally honest. When I review what someone has done the resume > is less impressive than the work done when it comes to software. > > Anything you can opensource and share with the public do so. make a > website that is based on the same domain as the same email you submit > resume's on. link any working demos you may have. link your projects via > git so they can look at what you make. > > Keep a project journal someplace and make that available. > > You can be the best dev in the world. but unless you can show off what you > do nobody will have an idea. > > Resume's are for headhunters mostly. they look for buzzwords and > consistent work. as well as references. > > > > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 3:53 PM Joseph Sinclair via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > >> Some thoughts that may help (in addition to the good advice from Keith, >> Steve, and David). >> 1. Working on some open source software in Github is a good place to >> build a "here is what I have done" portfolio. Github has pretty good >> public analytics showing all your public commits and pull requests, as well >> as issues, reviews, etc... I've used github history to understand >> engineering skill, practice, and approach for both candidates and coworkers. >> 2. What to work on depends a lot on what you find interesting. If you >> want to work on Java or other JVM languages (e.g. Scala), I can probably >> make some suggestions (ping me off-list for detail) for open source >> projects to work on; if you can be patient I might be able to provide some >> *light* guidance on some of those. >> 3. The extreme majority of companies are terrible at interviewing. It's >> not entirely you that's bad at interviews; the company is probably about as >> competent interviewing software engineers as the average garden slug. >> 4. You can try an approach I've seen some people have good results with. >> A number of companies have started using things like HackerRank to >> (foolishly in my opinion) "test" potential hires. It's relatively simple >> to work through the "challenges" and "tutorials" on that site if you have >> time. Completing the majority of those both makes it simple to pass these >> "test" interviews (whether you know how to design software or not), and can >> also produce a large visibility boost if you want to find work with one of >> the companies that use the service for hiring. >> >> Side note (OT and rant, skip if not interested in curmudgeonly rants). >> Using canned "code challenges" as a pass-fail "test" is about the >> stupidest way to vet software professionals ever. High quality engineers >> are not faster programmers (and make no mistake, HackerRank is mostly based >> on "get the 'correct' solution fast"). High quality engineers produce >> designs that meet requirements better, are more secure, perform better, are >> more reliable, and/or cost less to maintain and operate. The fact is that >> people interviewing engineers don't know how to evaluate engineering skill >> so they fall back to "objective" tests, and end up filtering *out* the very >> people they want. >> I want to be clear, asking a coding problem isn't bad; provided the goal >> is to listen and observe problem solving, however, not get a "right" >> answer. Most people I interview never complete my coding problems; but I >> learn a lot about how they approach problem solving in the process. >> What's the alternative, though? I advocate dropping the "interrogation" >> style interview entirely. If you have to dig and manipulate to get truth >> from the interviewee, then you should not hire them at all; they cannot be >> trusted. Focus on a clear, honest, open, adult conversation and mutual >> learning instead. Ask questions about what the candidate can do, wants to >> do, interests, and expectations. Learn, both directions, if and how the >> candidate may meet the needs of the business, and if the position offered >> will meet the needs and expectations of the candidate (not everyone wants >> every position, nor should they). >> I have found, through hundreds of interviews, on both sides of the table, >> that an honest and open conversation is many times more successful than the >> typical approach. >> >> On 2022-11-29 08:50 PM, trent shipley via PLUG-discuss wrote: >> > (Lead buried in last two or three paragraphs.) >> > >> > Hi, >> > >> > I've been in software writing positions on-and-off since about 1999. I >> > spent a couple years teaching myself Oracle SQL and PERL in 1999 and >> 2000 >> > for a nice application in the phone industry, then I had a long bout of >> > unemployment, with some false stats on contract programming positions >> along >> > the way. During that time I complimented my degrees, which included a >> math >> > major, with an MS in Information Management (really IT management) and a >> > certificate in programming from Rio Salado, a couple years programming >> > software tests in VBS for Micro Focus UFT One--which ceased to be very >> > challenging by the end of two years. Recently, I did a >> pre-apprenticeship >> > program with a local company with a software developer apprenticeship >> > program (TechOne IT) which basically worked out to a slow-paced virtual >> > boot camp in anticipation of an initial contingent >> placement/apprenticeship >> > proper. >> > >> > Right now my current employer (The Precisionists Inc)--which is >> specialized >> > in semi-supported contingent employment for autistic, neurodiverse, and >> > other disabled people (in that order) has me on the bench, but I'm >> close to >> > getting a new position as a Python web developer ... for which, I could >> be >> > more unqualified, but not much. >> > >> > After lackluster success with the equivalent of more than an AS in CIS >> > specializing in programming. I have concluded I face a few obstacles. >> > >> > 1. I'm autistic, so I can't interview worth a damn. >> > 2.a. There is a tremendous shortage of doctors and nurses, but no one is >> > going to hire one who hasn't graduated from an accredited program, done >> an >> > internship successfully, and passed their credentialing exam ... unless >> > it's as a drug salesperson. >> > 2.b. There is a tremendous shortage of software writers, but no one is >> > going to be studpid enough to hire one until they have completed an >> > accredited degree, done an internship, done a bootcamp, and maybe gotten >> > some certs. I've only done the first. >> > >> > I've been looking at maybe putting together a "software portfolio". >> > >> > The stuff on the internet is focused on web-developer portfolio and >> seems >> > to be really describing a visually appealing website which is partware >> > between a resume and CV, but much closer to a friendlier more personable >> > website--which to pay to have made since you aren't a web designer. >> > >> > I was thinking more, "this is my public GitHub account and this is >> software >> > I've written." >> > >> > Between school and the recent quasi-bootcamp, I should know Java well >> > enough to write something useful in it. >> > >> > I'm partway through a Scala basics book, and I love it sooo much. >> > >> > I'd like to write more than just toys, maybe starting with little >> > utility-like things (but all the good ones seem to have been done) or by >> > doing maintenance or little chores on a Java- or Scala-based open source >> > project, which raises the question of how to find a not-dead project I >> fit >> > well with and which can use my not-MIT grade talent and knowledge. >> > >> > I'd really like advice on how to put together a public software >> portfolio >> > which is also of practical use (well, of some kind of use to others, >> even >> > if not terribly practical.) >> > >> > >> > Trent >> > >> > >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------- >> > PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> > >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> > > > -- > A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from > rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. > > Stephen > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >