wonderful. with breaking patches: is it fixed like the next day or is it usually later than that? On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 9:21 AM James Mcphee via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > arch has probably the best community (and wiki) in the business. they > also have a huge (and relatively simple) extended software library (AUR) > > the main reason most people will speak of arch is that it is a rolling (or > streaming) release. so with fedora or ubuntu, you get new versions every 6 > months or so and there may be upgrade scripts but you have to pay > attention. with arch, it's a constant release system. this means in arch > you tend to have the newer versions of stuff most of the time, not waiting > on some arbitrary version release window. the downsides of this is that > with a locked version, you can generally count on patches not being > breaking, while that is not a guarantee in arch. > > also. arch is one of THE most customizable distros out there (that wiki > is so good it's often better than other distros official commercial > support). if you can do the base install (a bit more involved than fedora > or ubuntu), customizing your desktop isn't much of a jump. Sure, you can > do this with most other distros, i mean software is software, but with arch > you don't have dependencies for chat clients reaching all the way up to > base packages. > > On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 6:15 AM Michael via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > >> also, it was mentioned that arch has benefits..... what are those? >> >> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 9:12 AM Michael wrote: >> >>> thank yout for the advice. >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 9:10 AM James Mcphee via PLUG-discuss < >>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Oh sorry, I must have buried the lead. I use systemd linux systems for >>>> my desktopy desktops (ubuntu and fedora mostly). Aka, the ones i check >>>> email, browse the web, play games on. For my developery desktops I do not >>>> use systemd, but that is born of pure frustration and malding. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 6:05 AM Michael via PLUG-discuss < >>>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> So do you recommend system d for a desktop? It assms you don't and >>>>> then you do. >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 8:44 AM James Mcphee via PLUG-discuss < >>>>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> two main reasons. >>>>>> >>>>>> one is ideological. the way systemd was put into the community >>>>>> rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. i won't get into the details, you can >>>>>> google for that whole war. no sense bringing it up again. >>>>>> >>>>>> two is simplicity. systemd is now over a million lines of code. to >>>>>> put that into perspective, going by the mythical man month numbers, a >>>>>> single good programmer can average understanding 2 pages of code a day in a >>>>>> complex codebase. That's 50 lines of code per day. from the same source, >>>>>> developers produce roughly 10 lines of code per day on average. now, >>>>>> there's a lot of give around these numbers, but you can get some idea of >>>>>> the scale of trying to get a handle on it if there's a bug you need to work >>>>>> with. >>>>>> >>>>>> a couple of bugs i've had to deal with in recent memory, extended udp >>>>>> handling in resolved and console output (which was actually correct to >>>>>> standard in systemd, but everyone had worked around the previous bug and >>>>>> that workaround wasn't compatible with the systemd implementation). >>>>>> neither of these were minor. the resolved bug prevented adoption of dnssec >>>>>> and the console thing required manual intervention of containers using it >>>>>> (docker, k8s, etc). i don't know if these things have been resolved either >>>>>> in systemd or the container systems. the problems in question forced a >>>>>> rearchitecture of our projects as fixes were not going to be fast enough >>>>>> and we haven't revisited them. for the resolved issue, the systemd project >>>>>> lead flat out said it wasn't a priority. for the container/console issue, >>>>>> you have to go back in time when the docker team wore "no, i will not merge >>>>>> your systemd patches into our codebase" tshirts to conventions. >>>>>> >>>>>> in conclusion, i use systemd for servers, desktops, and vms. I find >>>>>> it quite reliable in most cases. i think it does a better job with login, >>>>>> hal, service dependency, and mtab than the older system. for my use case >>>>>> of containers, it is entirely unnecessary and nothing but a headache. for >>>>>> my developer station, i mald quite enough and have no patience left to deal >>>>>> with it when it inevitably creates issues (oh, no for this thing you need >>>>>> to put your proxy settings 3 layers of abstraction down over here with this >>>>>> particular format) and tend to use the simplest system possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 4:38 AM Michael via PLUG-discuss < >>>>>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Why would u not want system d? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 4:15 AM Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss < >>>>>>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, 2022-08-26 at 17:50 -0700, T. Zack Crawford via >>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss wrote: >>>>>>>> > I would recommend not Manjaro because it's just a less-good arch >>>>>>>> linux. >>>>>>>> > I use Arch Linux. Depends what you're looking for, though. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Or, Artix could be used in order to get the benefits of Arch >>>>>>>> without systemd. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> SteveT >>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> James McPhee >>>>>> jmcphe@gmail.com >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> James McPhee >>>> jmcphe@gmail.com >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>> >> >> >> -- >> :-)~MIKE~(-: >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > -- > James McPhee > jmcphe@gmail.com > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- :-)~MIKE~(-: