They are welcome to, but node splits are a 6 month minimum last I checked 😁 - granted we're getting faster with how many we're doing. In the next 5 years, most cable operators will implement some sort of aggressive node splitting to keep up with demand. Current employer not excluded. I've had CLink on fiber - they're upstream nodes are a little more saturated, but they do peer locally in the valley. Current employer does have peering with FAANG and a couple other heavy hitters in the valley (not any proprietary information here, any trace route from the valley to those sites will show it terminating in 2 or 3 hops), but if I recall correctly 70% of CLink traffic hits their DCs in Phoenix. Granted it's all best effort past that, but if you don't have a heavily saturated node, you'll do all right. GPON fiber is GPON fiber, regardless of Service Provider. It's just a question of how many other subscribers are on your PON port and how big the upstream links are. - Thomas Scott | mr.thomas.scott@gmail.com On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 4:04 PM Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > This last bit is interesting. I have Cox Fiber (no data cap for Gigablast > fiber yet) and Century Link just announced a competing service in my area. > For about half the cost. For the same Gigabit Fiber (or 940mbps as they are > calling it). > > Anyone with any experience with them on residential fiber? > > On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 5:59 AM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > >> So Cox subs can reach out to you when we're having saturation issues? :) >> >> Having been around for the beginnings of cable modem tech at @home >> networks in the 90's dealing with almost every big MSO (Cox, Comcast, ATT, >> Intermedia, etc), I like to talk about the tech as a bit proud where it's >> gone. I liked Cox as one of the last decent hold-outs for things like >> keeping Usenet around longer than they should, not killing customers for >> mpaa/riaa abuse complaints, and keeping data caps off when the industry was >> moving in that direction, so I think they're better than the rest, but >> eventually they hopped on the money train with data caps too. And now >> they're paying for their pro-pirate stance as well with lawsuits against >> them winning >> , >> probably using that extra cap revenue to pay the trolls. >> >> Would I go back? Not as long as they have data caps, and someone else >> around me doesn't, but yes - much better network. I don't like random >> overages in my bill, I get that enough with power. If I thought the covid >> restrictions to remove caps would hold, I'd probably switch back now, but >> I'm sure they'll find a reason to reimplement them asap as that's lost >> revenue on your rsu's. >> >> It's always good to hear from other docsis speakers, welcome back! >> >> -mb >> >> >> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 6:54 PM Thomas Scott >> wrote: >> >>> Day job is for a certain ISP HQ in Atlanta that supplies internet for a >>> lot of the valley - I work in Network Operations first in Phoenix and now >>> in Atlanta, and was surprised to see so much of what I talk about everyday >>> in PLUG! >>> >>> CLink trying to play FTTN as FTTH, nothing new there. I live in a >>> neighborhood outside of Atlanta that had some AT&T brownfield development >>> for FTTH, and I've had no regrets (300 up 300 down!) Cox is moving towards >>> "10G" with DOCSIS 4.0 and they are getting fiber closer to the home with >>> their node splits. If you find that you all off a sudden have an extra hop >>> in your path, that might be the seen you've been on one of those nodes that >>> have been lit and split. The amount of bandwidth going up and down will go >>> up dramatically. >>> >>> @Michael - yeah I don't think the caps are going anywhere, the industry >>> as a whole (driven by big red) has moved that direction, but I think you'll >>> see speeds and caps rise as N+0 goes to full duplex DOCSIS. I do know >>> they've been relaxed with the COVID-19 FCC initiatives, but how long that >>> lasts, I'm not sure. >>> >>> @Mac - the cox supplied modems are almost all going to "Panoramic Wi-Fi" >>> and the number of holes found in DOCSIS devices is... disturbing to say the >>> least. It was designed to be operated on a shared RF medium, and like other >>> "trusting" protocols (i.e. BGP) has a lot of issues. The more virtualized >>> it becomes, I think we'll see more of those go away - the smaller the >>> broadcast domains, and the smaller the first upstream router, the better >>> those will be able to be maintained and automated. Looking at the road >>> maps, it will be interesting what comes next. >>> >>> - Thomas Scott | mr.thomas.scott@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 3:54 PM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss < >>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Oddly enough, the model number of your router stuck in my head, the >>>> C3000Z, and I realized I used the same thing, but for my 150mbps dsl >>>> modem. You sure you have actual gig fiber? They tend to misrepresent >>>> their actual products in sales. Ask me how I know. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I say this because I called CL before going to them, and asked if I >>>> could get fiber in the network. They said yes. Hmm, I knew damn well they >>>> did not, as no one wants to build fiber into old peoria neighborhoods such >>>> as mine. After some conversation and calling him out, he explained that >>>> "oh, it's a gigabit network", just not fiber to your house. I could get >>>> dual-band DSL, which means 75mbps x2, for a total of 150mbps, delivered by >>>> a gigabit network! I sort of facepalmed, but ordered it anyways as it was >>>> significantly more than I had with cox (80mbps at the time I think), >>>> significantly cheaper, and no bandwidth cap. >>>> >>>> If there is anything other than fiber directly in your modem, I'd call >>>> bullocks, but FTTH is a myth to me. >>>> >>>> Crappier service, but I'll take the (usually) cheap and fast. It is >>>> most certainly not gigabit fiber to my house, even though that's what they >>>> tried to sell me I was getting. Only new house/community builds get fiber, >>>> and if even that. Cox did the same to compete with Google fiber, and as >>>> soon as Google Fiber died, so did Cox ever mentioning fiber again. Truth >>>> is Cox doesn't need it, shielded coax can deliver soon 10g over it just >>>> fine with new modulation schemas and docsis improvements. Centurylink's >>>> 100 year old 2-8 wire infrastructure cannot, all they can do is build new >>>> with fiber, but they probably won't being decrepit. >>>> >>>> I hear friends of mine mention they have fiber, and wonder just if they >>>> really do. This is why Google Fiber folded, it was unrealistic unless a >>>> net-new community build. Google fiber retrofits were a disaster >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> Fun-fact: Oddly enough the guy that built Google Fiber, Milo Medin, is >>>> the same guy that started @Home Networks back in late 90's for Cable Modem >>>> services, and pioneered current industry standards in use today globally to >>>> deliver cable internet. The last-mile regional MSO providers snuffed >>>> him/company back then, took it over themselves, and then they snuffed him >>>> out again as he tried the same incursion with Google Fiber, and realized it >>>> just cost too damn much to compete. Cable Monopolies, flawless victory. >>>> >>>> Next I expect he'll team up with Elon or Bezos to try again via >>>> terrestrial. >>>> >>>> -mb >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 10:32 AM Michael Butash >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I tend to find the CL network a bit wonky, having moved to DSL from >>>>> Cox (damn bandwidth caps). I find the general performance is worse than >>>>> cox, where I suspect they simply don't manage the bandwidth and are far too >>>>> oversubscribed as it feels like the internet buffers at times, literally. >>>>> Cox would occasionally get that way too, and it was easy to see in an >>>>> ongoing MTR when their peering in LA would get slammed and latency would >>>>> jump (not to mention I know the guys that manage that bandwidth, telling >>>>> them often got it fixed). Oddly Using MTR with CL, they filter icmp/udp >>>>> specifically that seems to hide responses to track well. Go figure, truth >>>>> hurts, so hide it. >>>>> >>>>> Having worked for service providers numerous times over the years, >>>>> working in and building them, routers are always an issue in a metro city >>>>> or even interstate networks. No two platforms are ever the same, whether >>>>> buying all Cisco, Juniper, Nokia, or any combo of all and more, which as >>>>> you said, many do. Hardest part is usually capacity planning, particularly >>>>> with something like covid, every isp took a kick in the groin at the same >>>>> time to augment their networks, suddenly by some magnitude, when everyone >>>>> else in the world is doing the same. Slowness in networking can often be >>>>> attributed to those not having enough capacity, though they'll never admit >>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>> I'm on the 150mbps dsl, and a speed test can provide that for sure, >>>>> but general usage, which I use a lot of tabs and apps, tends to bring >>>>> things to a crawl often. I'd even go back to cox if they got rid of the >>>>> bandwidth cap. CL might as well be government, and they're run by unions, >>>>> so nothing happens fast, including capacity augments. >>>>> >>>>> Re: mac limits, having been around Cox both as a customer and network >>>>> engineer working there early 2000's, the mac security was more about >>>>> limiting the amount of hosts behind a modem that could be allowed to a >>>>> single mac and IP address. Back Circa 1998 I had my first Cox modem, and >>>>> there were no routers, you just got yourself a phat 10baset switch from >>>>> computer city and connected up your family on public ip addresses, each >>>>> with their own mac and ip's. With no limits or filters that led to >>>>> security issues (hey, I see my neighbor's c drive shared!), Cox and others >>>>> then pushed people to then buy a router, which by then around 2002, you >>>>> could buy a cheap wrt54g linksys. The advent of docsis also allowed to >>>>> both filter and restrict the macs by default, also let them reduce to now >>>>> 1:1 IP to User ratio, which was good for ip management, the abuse >>>>> departments, and fbi warrants from legal. You used to be able to buy >>>>> another ip, they'd push a new docsis config with mac-alowed=2, but not >>>>> anymore. >>>>> >>>>> Same reasons they're just building in the router functions now, it >>>>> ensures they can offer some basic customer security, plus lets them run >>>>> whatever spyware in their embedded router os they want. Better off buying >>>>> your own standalone modem and router combo, one you ideally trust. >>>>> >>>>> -mb >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 10:07 PM Donald Mac McCarthy via PLUG-discuss < >>>>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Putting a CL modem into a bridge mode where it only handles the PPPoE >>>>>> connection is simply checking a radial select button and hitting apply. If >>>>>> your firewall supports PPoE, even better, as you no longer need their Modem >>>>>> and router in the mix. But, that is just my experience, and it is limited. >>>>>> I have a CL fiber to the door drop, and they gave me a Zyxel C3000Z device >>>>>> for connection. I promptly ripped it out and allowed pfSense to maintain >>>>>> the PPPoE connection. I had to call support for packet loss one time, and >>>>>> they refused to help me. So goes it rolling your own I guess. Turns out a >>>>>> day later we had a several hour outage due to one of the multiplexing cards >>>>>> used to distribute the 40Gb/s core fiber to the GPON devices failed. Seems >>>>>> like that was a likely culprit for some of the packet loss the previous day. >>>>>> >>>>>> Having just gotten off a call in which the Senior Director of >>>>>> Security Architecture and Engineering (a friend of mine from Atlanta) for >>>>>> Cox was a participant, before he hung up I asked him about the typical Cox >>>>>> supplied modems. Very, very few of them are purely bridge devices - >>>>>> especially with the push to "Panoramic WiFi". A member of CentryLink who >>>>>> was also on the call (ISP InfoSec sharing/working group) mentioned how >>>>>> painful it was to support the number of company issued >>>>>> modems/gateway/router models there are for different infrastructure and >>>>>> connections - let alone ones that customers buy and bring to the party. >>>>>> BTW, the MAC address thing is because they do actually use a MAC locking >>>>>> like feature for security. Apparently it is bad for the network if you just >>>>>> go plug your modem in at several houses in the neighborhood due to the way >>>>>> DOCSIS works. I still have to dig into that and ask some more questions on >>>>>> that one. >>>>>> >>>>>> There was a collective groan among the engineers when another ISP >>>>>> spoke up about the number of critical flaws they find in their DOCIS >>>>>> devices each year. >>>>>> >>>>>> With the amount of consolidation which has happened in the past 20 >>>>>> years in the broadband market, the landscape is riddled with legacy bits >>>>>> and pieces of this provider and that provider somehow being coerced into >>>>>> working together to accomplish passing traffic. One of the ISPs mentioned >>>>>> they had no less than 350 different models of core switching equipment made >>>>>> by more than a dozen manufacturers in their network. They have a team of 40 >>>>>> (really 5 teams of 8) that simply monitor and ensure that the OSPF >>>>>> functions properly among the various models and brands to make sure that >>>>>> the network properly heals/manages congestion. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway, just throwing it out so that people can see and understand >>>>>> the picture at a higher level. The final comment on the call was from an >>>>>> engineer at a midwestern rural provider and one that I am sure many of us >>>>>> can relate to. She said she spends all day pulling her hair out trying to >>>>>> keep the network functioning at the highest of levels. The first words out >>>>>> of her kids' mouths when she gets home are "Mom, the WiFi seems slow today." >>>>>> >>>>>> I talked with Alexander this afternoon, and it looks like he has a >>>>>> functioning network again. The APs were reluctant to give up their old >>>>>> configuration, so a factory reset and new DHCP leases seem to have done the >>>>>> trick. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hopefully this sheds a bit of light on something for a few people. >>>>>> >>>>>> Mac >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss wrote on 5/4/20 4:59 PM: >>>>>> >>>>>> Ideally when you plug into a cable modem, it comes up, and passes >>>>>> your ethernet to the cmts in a bridge, lets one mac address dhcp/arp, and >>>>>> things work. It learns that one ip/mac, and disallows any other mac. No >>>>>> security, nat, nothing, just real dumb dhcp + default routing with a public >>>>>> ip. Routers/firewalls try to NAT you, thus double NAT if using a router >>>>>> behind it. >>>>>> >>>>>> CL sells you a dsl modem/router that does your local security whether >>>>>> you want it or not, full router/nat/firewall, and probably spyware. Making >>>>>> it a modem is possible, but takes work, and your firewall has to support >>>>>> PPPoE (not all can/do). Last time I touched a combo Cox router/modem, I >>>>>> didn't see any way to do so. I told them to buy a real modem, and that >>>>>> worked with their belkin/cisco/linksys/netgear they had. >>>>>> >>>>>> If your "modem" mentions wifi, it's a router/firewall, not a modem. >>>>>> Not all are clear about this, as they dumb it down for consumers, but an >>>>>> important point. >>>>>> >>>>>> -mb >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 1:53 PM Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss < >>>>>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I Owned a Nighthawk Router/Modem combo, The way that Netgear handled >>>>>>> that is that the modem was hard-wired to a bridge on the router side. and >>>>>>> technically you could see it as a separate device in the router configs if >>>>>>> you rooted around enough. but the modem side was just a modem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 11:03 AM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss < >>>>>>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cox modems *are* bridges first and foremost typically, unless you >>>>>>>> get a bundled router/modem, which is only what CenturyLink sells. If you >>>>>>>> got a "router/modem" combo, just buy a modem-only device for a dumb bridge >>>>>>>> and simple ethernet for a public ip. I recommend staying with an arris >>>>>>>> cable modem, originally motorola, they basically developed cable modem >>>>>>>> docsis, and are always the best. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I moved from Cox to CL when Cox started adding a usage cap, and >>>>>>>> that was new to me to get my Fortinet firewall online with CL and their DSL >>>>>>>> doing PPPOE. I've seen the router/cable modem combo boxes later, but never >>>>>>>> owned one as I always have my own router/firewall. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -mb >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 8:36 AM Donald Mac McCarthy < >>>>>>>> mac@oscontext.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Will Cox allow for a bridge/virtual bridge mode? Xfinity does, >>>>>>>>> which allows you to put in a firewall, and use the modem only as a gateway, >>>>>>>>> therefore preventing a double NAT situation. Never lived in a Cox area >>>>>>>>> before, and currently ride CL fiber. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mac >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss wrote on 5/3/20 2:00 PM: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cox modems will learn and allow only 1 mac at a time (unless >>>>>>>>> business is set to allow more, but not on residential). If switching out >>>>>>>>> firewalls, I 99% of time reboot the modem first and foremost. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -mb >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 12:08 PM Snyder, Alexander J via >>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I got it working. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I assigned the SFP+ port as my LAN and assigned it the >>>>>>>>>> 10.x.x.x/16 network. Then I had to call COX and list the WAN Mac address >>>>>>>>>> with them. Upon doing so I was able to reach external sites, and all >>>>>>>>>> downstream devices started coming alive! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all the suggestions and help! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> Alexander >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my Galaxy S10+ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 3, 2020, 03:14 Herminio Hernandez, Jr. via >>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Can you login to the FW via the LAN interface? Can you ping >>>>>>>>>>> the FW LAN interface? Check the routing and NAT policy on the FW. All >>>>>>>>>>> outbound traffic should NAT to the FW WAN interface and there should be a >>>>>>>>>>> default (0.0.0.0/0) route to the internet. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 7:27 PM Seabass via PLUG-discuss < >>>>>>>>>>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm with Mac, I think it is not the firewall, but if you have >>>>>>>>>>>> the ability to plug it into a display with a keyboard, you can use that for >>>>>>>>>>>> configuration and modify a different device at the same time. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Makes it easier to troubleshoot by giving you the ability to >>>>>>>>>>>> configure your pfSense ports at the same time. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Message: 2 >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 09:04:35 -0700 >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Donald Mac McCarthy >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Snyder, Alexander J via PLUG-discuss" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: pfSense + Ubiquity >>>>>>>>>>>> Message-ID: <18adfa38-3e72-7b0a-e31a-1ddf175d717f@oscontext.com >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I can help - but I am unavailable to do so until tomorrow. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Make sure there are not any thing other than default VLANs on >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> interfaces to start with. Ubiquiti is famous for not havinght >>>>>>>>>>>> eSFP+ >>>>>>>>>>>> ports active in the default configuration, and I believe the >>>>>>>>>>>> switch has >>>>>>>>>>>> all the ports to shutdown on default config as well. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think it is the switch not passing traffic through - no the >>>>>>>>>>>> firewall. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Mac >>>>>>>>>>>> Snyder, Alexander J via PLUG-discuss wrote on 5/2/20 8:53 AM: >>>>>>>>>>>> > Does anyone out there have experience with pfSence and >>>>>>>>>>>> Ubiquity switches? >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > I have zero with either but that didn't stop me from buying >>>>>>>>>>>> both .... >>>>>>>>>>>> > how hard could it be?! LOL. >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > I bought a Negate XG-1537-1U. I bought a Unifi Pro 24 PoE >>>>>>>>>>>> switch. >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > I can configure the FW immediately after >>>>>>>>>>>> > firstboot/restore-default-configs, but only if i set the LAN >>>>>>>>>>>> interface >>>>>>>>>>>> > to be the cable that goes directly to my laptop. That's >>>>>>>>>>>> great, but >>>>>>>>>>>> > that does shit for the downstream switch. >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > I have a 10GB SFP+ Port that I want to configure as the >>>>>>>>>>>> downstream >>>>>>>>>>>> > port to ubiquity, but any configuration other than mentioned >>>>>>>>>>>> above >>>>>>>>>>>> > fails .... and I'm now on my 12th "Reset To Factory Defaults" >>>>>>>>>>>> ... any >>>>>>>>>>>> > help on this would be greatly appreciated! >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>> > Alexander >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > Sent from my Galaxy S10+ >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>>>> > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Donald "Mac" McCarthy >>>>>>>>>>>> Director, Field Operations >>>>>>>>>>>> Open Source Context >>>>>>>>>>>> +1.602.584.4445 >>>>>>>>>>>> mac@oscontext.com >>>>>>>>>>>> https://oscontext.com >>>>>>>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>>>>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>>>>>>>>>> URL: < >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/pipermail/plug-discuss/attachments/20200502/aeab14b4/attachment-0001.html >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> End of PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 179, Issue 2 >>>>>>>>>>>> ******************************************** >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Donald "Mac" McCarthy >>>>>>>>> Director, Field Operations >>>>>>>>> Open Source Context >>>>>>>>> +1.602.584.4445 >>>>>>>>> mac@oscontext.com >>>>>>>>> https://oscontext.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you >>>>>>> from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Stephen >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Donald "Mac" McCarthy >>>>>> Director, Field Operations >>>>>> Open Source Context >>>>>> +1.602.584.4445 >>>>>> mac@oscontext.com >>>>>> https://oscontext.com >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > -- > A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from > rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. > > Stephen > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss