This is why I suggest the barebo es systems from Amazon and Newegg.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 7:58 AM Michael Butash <michael@butash.net> wrote:

> Long story short, ignore the fact it ships with windoze, format the disk,
> and just install a linux over it.  Almost not worth the hassle or added
> expense to find/get a "factory linux" system.
>
> TL:DR version:
>
> Unless you buy a pc specifically from System76 or another linux-friendly
> laptop, they're always going to have windoze on them.  This goes back to
> the 90's when Microsith forced universally all oem's to include windoze, as
> any barebones pc sold really meant a pirated copy of windoze going on it.
> There really wasn't a viable os alternative then (no, warp and beos didn't
> count), so sort of made sense, but for me just meant I started building my
> own pc then.  Now it's just grating with linux mature and totally viable.
>
> That said, oem windoze is almost marginal cost in a pc (oem's usually pay
> ~$20 or less), and while annoying, buying a pc with windoze on and paying
> the M$ tax is a "who cares" other than to make a point.  You'll pay more to
> get someone NOT to sell you windoze on a pc.  Also, I still find to do
> things like upgrade ssd firmware and some other odd hardware (thunderbolt
> things, docks, etc) still just plain need windoze for firmware loading.  I
> kept my dell xps15 dual boot for this reason, every 6mo-1yr I'll boot over
> to windoze, upgrade everything, and go back to forgetting it's there.
>
> Even System76 just mostly rebrands/skins ubuntu as their PopOS, and
> otherwise don't think it's doing anything special with drivers or
> firmware.  If the stock kernel and drivers don't work, I doubt they're
> doing much to fix outside mainline linux releases.  Their systems were
> fairly pricey last I looked, vs. I always buy refurb'd dells at significant
> deals via dell outlet, and stacking on a 30-40% off coupon with it as they
> pop up around holidays.  I'm cheap.
>
> Dell also puts out linux-based systems infrequently, but might find these
> at a good price with coupons occasionally in their XPS "Developer editions"
> with Ubuntu.  Only issue I ever run into with linux on dell hardware is
> when they have an nvidia+intel hybrid graphics - I can never make these
> work reliably, my current xps15 9560 being a good example of this, but
> otherwise with intel only loaded (nvidia drivers removed) works fine (minus
> gaming).
>
> HTH!
>
> -mb
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 9:17 PM Jim <azanorak@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm looking to buy a desktop pc but I don't want one that has windows
>> already on it since I won't use it.   Can someone suggest somewhere
>> online that sells them?  thanks
>>
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