Here is another great video worth considering. It is very long but informative https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z_nBhfpmk4 On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 10:30 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. < herminio.hernandezjr@gmail.com> wrote: > Here is a good presentation by Bryan Lunduke on NN > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csK3KspB-6A > > On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 10:24 PM, Herminio Hernandez Jr. < > herminio.hernandezjr@gmail.com> wrote: > >> My point was those abuses were addressed without the need of NN in the >> past. NN IMO was a too heavy handed and misguided approach to a situation >> which the previous system took care of. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Nov 25, 2017, at 9:52 PM, Brian Cluff wrote: >> >> I think you forget that the neutrality was put into place specifically to >> deal with the network providers messing with netflix among other service's >> data in favor of their own services. That IS how we dealt with it. >> >> You keep talking about being able to get optimized services, but those >> are legal and common now. Getting rid of net neutrality won't enable >> those. Throttling your competitors services to the point of degrading >> their service isn't an optimized service. >> >> Brian Cluff >> >> >> On 11/25/2017 07:24 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. wrote: >> >> I do understand those concerns, but those types of abuses have existed in >> the past and were dealt with before there was Net Neutrality. I do really >> think that the bigger threat from the big content providers and not the >> ISPs. >> >> On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 7:12 PM, wrote: >> >>> >>> I hear you. If everyone would play fair I would think slicing up data >>> usage is fair. I watch a lot of YouTube, however I do not need 4k. My >>> main concern is for businesses who use the Internet to market and do >>> business. As you probably know there is a move from brick and mortar to >>> online stores and more so to selling on Amazon. >>> >>> If there is no net neutrality and GoDaddy invests in timewarner, then >>> timewarner could keep people from seeing your website that is hosted on >>> HostGator. Then Godaddy could coerce you into moving to GoDaddy or pay a >>> fee to GoDaddy or timewarner. >>> >>> I see some serious antitrust coming. We need to get ICAAN back and we >>> need to keep the Internet the Wild West to some degree. I do see Google is >>> headed for some antitrust law suites, and maybe Government oversight. >>> Government oversight is scary given how corrupt our Government is. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2017-11-24 12:31, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. wrote: >>> >>> I will start with some thoughts on why I find the NN debate troubling. >>> First there is a technical misunderstanding. NN is built on the idea that >>> ISPs should treat all traffic equally. This concept is simply unrealistic. >>> Bandwidth is a limited resource there is only so much data that a Ethernet >>> port can transmit and receive. Also things like MTU size, latency, jitter >>> all impact the reliable transmission of data which bring me to my other >>> point. Not all traffic is the same. There are night and day differences >>> between TCP and UDP traffic. For example UDP (which is what most voice and >>> video is) is faster than TCP. The drawback to this is that UDP does not >>> have the recovery features that TCP has in case of packet loss (ie sequence >>> number and acknowledgment packets). There UDP applications are more prone >>> to suffer when latency is high or links get saturated. To overcome this >>> network engineer implement prioritization and traffic shaping to ensure >>> these services are not impacted. >>> >>> As more content is consumed such as 4K video on the internet, the need >>> for traffic shaping will only increase. Netflix already has the ability to >>> push 100Gbps from their servers. That is a ton of data that needs to be >>> prioritized by ISPs. This is not free there are serious costs involved in >>> man hours and infrastructure. Someone needs to bear that cost. This is why >>> I am not opposed to fast lanes. If Netflix is going to have ISPs ensure all >>> of the massive amounts to data are push is delivered efficiently, then the >>> ISPs should be free to charge a premium for this service. Netflix does not >>> want to bear this cost, hense their support for Net Neutrality. They want >>> the ISPs to bear the cost, but then result of that is we bear the cost via >>> data caps. >>> >>> When you strip away all the slogans it all comes down to money and >>> control. Data will be traffic shaped it is just who decides how unelected >>> government bureaucrats pushing some public policy or market forces. >>> >>> Something else to consider a lot not all but a lot of the very same >>> people who cry that the end of Net Neutrality will be end of free speech >>> (no more free and open internet) have no issue saying Twiiter, Facebook, >>> and Google (since they are 'private companies') have the right demonetize, >>> obscure, or even ban individuals who express ideas that other deem >>> "offensive". How is that promoting a "Free and Open Internet"? >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Eric Oyen >>> wrote: >>> >>>> well, as someone else suggested, a new thread. >>>> >>>> so, shall we start the discussion? >>>> >>>> ok, as mentioned, bandwidth is a limited resource. the question is How >>>> limited? >>>> >>>> Then there is the question: can an ISP curtail certain types of traffic >>>> (null route it, delay it, other bandwidth shaping routines)? How far can >>>> they go? >>>> >>>> What really is net neutrality? >>>> >>>> lastly, what part does the FCC play, or should they? >>>> >>>> so, any thoughts on the above questions? >>>> >>>> -eric >>>> from the central offices of the Technomage Guild, you got questions, we >>>> got answers Dept. >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> >