Here is a good presentation by Bryan Lunduke on NN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csK3KspB-6A On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 10:24 PM, Herminio Hernandez Jr. < herminio.hernandezjr@gmail.com> wrote: > My point was those abuses were addressed without the need of NN in the > past. NN IMO was a too heavy handed and misguided approach to a situation > which the previous system took care of. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 25, 2017, at 9:52 PM, Brian Cluff wrote: > > I think you forget that the neutrality was put into place specifically to > deal with the network providers messing with netflix among other service's > data in favor of their own services. That IS how we dealt with it. > > You keep talking about being able to get optimized services, but those are > legal and common now. Getting rid of net neutrality won't enable those. > Throttling your competitors services to the point of degrading their > service isn't an optimized service. > > Brian Cluff > > > On 11/25/2017 07:24 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. wrote: > > I do understand those concerns, but those types of abuses have existed in > the past and were dealt with before there was Net Neutrality. I do really > think that the bigger threat from the big content providers and not the > ISPs. > > On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 7:12 PM, wrote: > >> >> I hear you. If everyone would play fair I would think slicing up data >> usage is fair. I watch a lot of YouTube, however I do not need 4k. My >> main concern is for businesses who use the Internet to market and do >> business. As you probably know there is a move from brick and mortar to >> online stores and more so to selling on Amazon. >> >> If there is no net neutrality and GoDaddy invests in timewarner, then >> timewarner could keep people from seeing your website that is hosted on >> HostGator. Then Godaddy could coerce you into moving to GoDaddy or pay a >> fee to GoDaddy or timewarner. >> >> I see some serious antitrust coming. We need to get ICAAN back and we >> need to keep the Internet the Wild West to some degree. I do see Google is >> headed for some antitrust law suites, and maybe Government oversight. >> Government oversight is scary given how corrupt our Government is. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 2017-11-24 12:31, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. wrote: >> >> I will start with some thoughts on why I find the NN debate troubling. >> First there is a technical misunderstanding. NN is built on the idea that >> ISPs should treat all traffic equally. This concept is simply unrealistic. >> Bandwidth is a limited resource there is only so much data that a Ethernet >> port can transmit and receive. Also things like MTU size, latency, jitter >> all impact the reliable transmission of data which bring me to my other >> point. Not all traffic is the same. There are night and day differences >> between TCP and UDP traffic. For example UDP (which is what most voice and >> video is) is faster than TCP. The drawback to this is that UDP does not >> have the recovery features that TCP has in case of packet loss (ie sequence >> number and acknowledgment packets). There UDP applications are more prone >> to suffer when latency is high or links get saturated. To overcome this >> network engineer implement prioritization and traffic shaping to ensure >> these services are not impacted. >> >> As more content is consumed such as 4K video on the internet, the need >> for traffic shaping will only increase. Netflix already has the ability to >> push 100Gbps from their servers. That is a ton of data that needs to be >> prioritized by ISPs. This is not free there are serious costs involved in >> man hours and infrastructure. Someone needs to bear that cost. This is why >> I am not opposed to fast lanes. If Netflix is going to have ISPs ensure all >> of the massive amounts to data are push is delivered efficiently, then the >> ISPs should be free to charge a premium for this service. Netflix does not >> want to bear this cost, hense their support for Net Neutrality. They want >> the ISPs to bear the cost, but then result of that is we bear the cost via >> data caps. >> >> When you strip away all the slogans it all comes down to money and >> control. Data will be traffic shaped it is just who decides how unelected >> government bureaucrats pushing some public policy or market forces. >> >> Something else to consider a lot not all but a lot of the very same >> people who cry that the end of Net Neutrality will be end of free speech >> (no more free and open internet) have no issue saying Twiiter, Facebook, >> and Google (since they are 'private companies') have the right demonetize, >> obscure, or even ban individuals who express ideas that other deem >> "offensive". How is that promoting a "Free and Open Internet"? >> >> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Eric Oyen wrote: >> >>> well, as someone else suggested, a new thread. >>> >>> so, shall we start the discussion? >>> >>> ok, as mentioned, bandwidth is a limited resource. the question is How >>> limited? >>> >>> Then there is the question: can an ISP curtail certain types of traffic >>> (null route it, delay it, other bandwidth shaping routines)? How far can >>> they go? >>> >>> What really is net neutrality? >>> >>> lastly, what part does the FCC play, or should they? >>> >>> so, any thoughts on the above questions? >>> >>> -eric >>> from the central offices of the Technomage Guild, you got questions, we >>> got answers Dept. >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >