Good information, however "GPT as far as I can tell simply doesn't work outside EFI" this is kind of the norm. On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 6:30 PM, Michael Butash wrote: > I figured if I'm going to anything, I'd prefer to go to something I can > control more, which always seems to bring me back to Arch, and more than a > few of you seem to use it too. I attempted before and failed, but this > weekend I got there, got stable, and then found more or less all the same > desktop bugs and more, particularly with KDE, with far more pain than I'm > used to with Ubuntu or other debian derivatives. Figured I would share > some of the experiences for better and worse even if TL:DR, but HTH someone > too. > > I like certain things about Arch, but found getting it working to be a > dismal process, and one that kept teaching me just how different (or > broken) every distribution's process can be. I simply can't imagine most > people using Arch that aren't simply diehard sysadmins, primarily even > getting it to work outside of the most basic installations. > > Biggest things that totally screwed me up were my want to use GPT, these > new-fangled nvme disks that aren't still fully baked into linux, adapting > my disk/volume setup to all of this, and finding it really didn't like me > making /usr a separate partition. > > GPT as far as I can tell simply doesn't work outside EFI, especially as a > legacy bios thing that has been MBR-based for eons. Usage of GPT seems to > ass-u-me/implies it is being paired with EFI which knows these things. > Trying everything with this intel board, it simply would never boot off it, > and apparently most legacy bios are cranky about booting gpt, particularly > intel boards. I wasted thanksgiving long weekend attempting last time, > even without raid or anything else on a standard non-nvme ssd, and never > worked. I give up as I didn't really need GPT, but more curiosity to keep > alignment proper for ssd geometry. > > I got a pair of Samsung NVME-based 950 Pro M.2 disks as my end-goal, as > their attachment to the pci-bus direct seems to be the future. > Unfortunately the tech is still new, most tools like udev still aren't > baked to detect them, and even when rigging it with rules to do so, fails > because of other things around udev not baked in either. This includes > thins like hdparm, smart tools, any monitoring apps looking for drives at > only sd[a-z]*, zfs libs (because udev won't build /dev/disk/by-* links off > them), and most anything else looking for disks !=sd*. Even samsung's own > firmware utility "magician" doesn't know what they are under linux. > > Adapting my disk formula was actually fairly easy giving up on GPT and ZFS > already, combining MBR+ traditional linux fs tools, mdadm, luks/cryptsetup, > and lvm2 didn't so much care. What last broke my booting linux was > combinations of mdadm and luks, and my typical habit of building /usr as a > separate partition. I found out the hard way mdraid builds different from > initrd or a fully-booted kernel, and arch didn't seem to want to work via > UUID with grub, as it unlocks luks volumes differently in initrd than > ubuntu does (poorly in arch, imho). Once I created a static mdadm.conf for > it, pointed grub to unlock it, it would work. Then die on not finding /usr > to init systemd. > > The usr problem was far more annoying, and took some digging, where all > recommendations I found simply didn't work. Arch devs just never presumed > anyone would want to do that, and really have no good method of supporting > it. Quick fix was relenting and keeping /usr on root anyways, though > annoying it wasn't so obvious with boot dying because of not getting > /sbin/init to work (really a symlink to /usr/lib/systemd/systemd or like). > > After everything, I have mdraided nvme disks, luks encryption, lvm, and > ext4 atop that, so I'm at least no worse off. ZFS was my first choice, but > linux tools not understanding nvme drives broke that as viable. BTRFS > didn't seem to get me much with chicken and egg issues around encryption > that it would be simpler, but would have at least offered lzo compression, > if not brokenness like ZFS+udev with nvme. > > Once at a desktop again, KDE with latest packages ala neon are still a > clusterfsck though, still getting my taskbar flipping around with displays > coming/going, but not Arch's fault, and at least I'm stable off of Ubuntu > so far otherwise. I probably need to try cinnamon or mate again, something > the developers have tested more than a single monitor and video card with. > > I cannot say it's been terribly worth it so far moving to Arch, but this > is only really my second full day of just simply "using it". The fact it > really is so minimal has been a bit painful, as it requires literally > anything you might actually need to be installed, even with full desktop > meta packages. Actually need a terminal app with kde - need to add > konsole. Want screenshots with spectacle or music with banshee? Need to > figure out AUR, or yaourt as I did. > > Thankfully I've already learned their stupid app names for linux software > to even begin to find most (like baobab, my favorite disk space utility > with the most horrid name), but I don't expect most would/could but the > most diehard linux users to get a moderately complete desktop back. At > least versus kubuntu giving you an adequate base to start with that I'm > more used to. > > Any windoze person would have run away screaming long ago, and I think > even most moderately skilled linux folks - it really shouldn't be this > hard, yet here I am too. Neither debian or ubuntu are good long-term with > upgrades obliterating my system, so here's to hoping change is worth it in > the long run for rolling releases and adding a new distribution to > achievements earned. > > -mb > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen