I second Alan's motion. We are Linux users (or open source software users). I try to get to every Linux activity I can.... Well I did when I was in Phoenix. Now I'm in the middle of nowhere. Can I volunteer to maintain the website (or at least the calendar)? I am disabled and so have plenty of time on my hands to do that. :-)~MIKE~(-: On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Alan Dayley wrote: > "and recent request from Alan Dayley not to discuss MPGLUG and DeVry > Hackfesting on the Discussion and Security lists)." > > My request was unclear. I am sorry for that. Let me clarify. > > I do NOT want event announcements from other groups to stop. Please > announce events in the PLUG lists. > > I DO want veiled arguments and attacks in such announcements to stop. > There are so many Linux users and professionals in Phoenix that there is no > need to disrespect any other group in order to build your own. > > Lastly, I have no power of policy making in PLUG at all. My request is > from me, as a person who dislikes unproductive conflict. > > Alan > > On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 12:47 PM Lisa Desperation > wrote: > >> A good study of history, resource allocation and competition provides >> clarity to set policy and provide fair open source choices. >> >> Please see the following message from Lisa Kachold (who started the >> Hackfests with PLUG in 2008 [now associated with MPGLUG and in good >> standing at DeVry University] which was censored from the PLUG MAILMAN >> Discussion Lists related to removal of the Hackfests from the PLUG Calendar >> (and recent request from Alan Dayley not to discuss MPGLUG and DeVry >> Hackfesting on the Discussion and Security lists). >> >> There is a great deal of "gossip" strangely in this Linux community, with >> outrageous claims that the "hackfests were thrown out of Ganglank for >> hacking" (patently untrue [we are West Phoenix residents unhappy with >> commuting to Chandler]), so it's incredibly important to evaluate the >> "actual words" of individuals. >> >> For instance, we compare Todd Cole's admission of removing the Hackfests >> from the schedule against resource use events in context. DeVry >> University's donated OneNeck rack use by AZLOCO was pulled because of lack >> of student involvement or direct campus meetings (after the DeVry DLUG >> student David Huerta graduated and the DLUG disbanded) whereupon Hackfests >> were given exclusive control over the rack and public IPs (where the AZLOCO >> Big Blue Button server had been located). >> >> All linux user groups are healthy because of the historic willingness of >> all members to GROW and INCLUDE discussion and sister community venues, not >> censor or remove discussion and facts: >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Lisa Kachold >> Date: Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 9:47 PM >> Subject: Fwd: plug calendar >> >> Thanks Todd for your mail describing your direct role in the decision to >> drop the 8 year old Hackfests from the PLUG calendar (excerpted below). I >> really wish you or Hans or another PLUG member would have contacted me >> either to state this decision or brainstorm a solution. >> I understand that you have fostered bad feelings after DeVry University's >> management requested that David Demland (and I) verify the student use of >> the donated rack at OneNeck, which actually was not used at all for >> anything but the AZLoco Big Blue Button server that you inherited after >> their (student managed) DLUG was left without leadership (due to >> graduation) and disbanded. Since AZLoco had no school relationship or >> student interaction, it was suggested that we give you a chance to either >> relocate your servers or begin working closely with the Hackfests or >> another student or University involved open source event, as their rules >> require. You chose instead, to quickly remove your servers and limit all >> communication with me, which previously was regular, cooperative and >> productive. >> Unfortunately the PLUG Discuss List has failed to recognize the great >> contribution the Hackfest provides to the community, to our interns and >> DeVry/ITT students, and the value the open source security contributors and >> professional linux community members have added through the last 8 years >> interacting and supporting the Hackfest. >> People attempting to attend the Hackfests complained because they >> couldn't get into the DeVry University campus without instructions which we >> were repeatedly unsuccessful getting posted on the PLUG Schedule. DeVry is >> a closed secure campus, and the office volunteers often don't know what >> event is happening when. Posting signs is also limited by school facility >> security rules, and without detailed instructions on the PLUG schedule our >> attendance suffered. We have NEVER missed a venue or a scheduled event >> (especially not in the last 5 years [since you became active in the Plug >> Schedule after you were asked to relinquish sole use of the OneNeck rack >> (or become involved directly with DeVry students). Again we have failed >> repeatedly over the years with our requests to get the Hackfest listing >> specifics on the PLUG schedule. Our posts to the PLUG announce mailing >> lists, and security have always gone out (or been sent) days before the >> event and included instructions to either call 2 phone numbers for (David >> Demland and/or I) or trade an ID at the office for an access badge to come >> to room #231. I was alerted that no announcements were being sent, but >> assumed that the PLUG was operated in a professional way, and if there was >> an issue, I would be contacted. No announcements came to a second address >> I use for test email which is also subscribed to all the email lists, so >> when I finally found time between professional endeavors (IBM/Dell/local >> current International security firm Sr. Systems Administration role) I >> began to investigate. >> We always have at least 10 community people (in addition to students) but >> usually total attendance tops around 25 filling the lab where we use DeVry >> desktop stations to demonstrate Kali Linux. This is a healthy venue that >> will be continuing with one of the other local Users Groups and David >> Demland, Tim Garcia (ITT), and the many other professionals contributing >> presentations and suggestions. >> I believe you are misreading the user complaints about the Hackfest which >> were actually a complaint of the lack of instructions posted on the >> schedule, for which you had the ability to effect. This is a terrible >> failure of a LUG process when actually all that would have been required to >> make it more successful would have been the addition of a good description >> of access procedures to DeVry University including my very public phone >> number on the PLUG schedule. >> I have directed all of our attendees not to target either AZLoco or the >> PhxLinux.org sites because of this controversy and long running conflict, >> despite the fact that most CMS are trivially exploitable with the practical >> tools and procedures we demonstrate at Hackfests in lab environments. >> --Best >> Original Email: >> from: Todd Cole >> to: Lisa Kachold >> date: Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 6:47 PM >> subject: plug calendar >> >> Lisa >> I no longer mail to plug list so I apologize on the delay and private >> email. >> Some of the things you have posted are in fact due to me. Several years >> ago there were many errors in the plug calendar and the loco was a bit more >> accurate. Hans now has kids and a family and Brian has a kid and full time >> job and the calendar was sadly not kept up. I offered loco dates by feed at >> first and then last year we went to a full feed from loco calendar. This >> has been difficult to word events and top billing and whose name should be >> first. There have been several volunteers that have started to maintain the >> plug calendar but both have dropped it after minutes of updating events. As >> of right now no one is maintaining the plug calendar and several broken >> feeds and events some new, some wrong. >> I have dropped the Hackfest from azloco calendar due to many complaints >> several years ago of people showing up at events and finding no one there >> and no note or notice of a cancelled event. Since you have moved to Devry I >> was still getting a few calls that they could not locate or contact you at >> an event and or people were at a event felt totally lost. I can understand >> that your projects are not for a total noob or a basic user so after >> discussions with plug and the loco it was decided not to promote Hackfest >> at this time. If and when I get positive comments I will be happy to >> reconsider for the loco end and I cannot speak for the plug side >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >