My two cents.... Learn what interests you. Find a project that you like, and start working on it. It can be personal, or opensource. Learning is life long. Just start scratching those itches! ;-) Mark On Aug 26, 2013 2:10 PM, "Paul Mooring" wrote: > I don't care for python at all and actively avoid it. > Syntactically is a bad idea that should go away and the "there's only one > way to do it" attitude is completely wrong. > > Bash vs. are good at teaching > different things. Bash is mandatory for sys-admins but generally doesn't > teach great scripting/programming practices as semantically it works quite > different. Any other more robust language (perl, python and ruby being the > big 3) will do a much better job of teaching you "how to code" by > introducing proper usage of things like functions, objects (hopefully) and > data structures. In my opinion you would be well served by either one > depending on what you're hoping to gain from it (bash for leveling up your > sys-admin or python for building a dev baseline). > > > Paul Mooring > Operations Engineer > www.opscode.com > > ------------------------------ > *From:* plug-discuss-bounces@lists.phxlinux.org < > plug-discuss-bounces@lists.phxlinux.org> on behalf of Michael Havens < > bmike1@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Monday, August 26, 2013 1:58 PM > *To:* Main PLUG discussion list > *Subject:* Re: what to learn > > Thank you so much for your answers. Okay... here is what I think I'll > do; scripting and linux from scratch first. While programs are compiling > with LFS I'll work on python. I have a python book, it is Python, How to > Program but it is old (2002). I also have a book entitled "Linux Shell > Scripting with BASH". What do you recommend? I think I should do scripting > with BASH because, while it too is old (2004), BASH has always been the > same and therefore the age of the book is irrelevant (I think). > > :-)~MIKE~(-: > > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:34 AM, George Toft wrote: > >> To add to what Paul said . . . >> >> What interests you? I know many sysadmins that don't develop code; many >> developers that can't spell Linux (OK, they can, but they also think 777 >> permissions fix everything, even access to data files). I've even met SA's >> that couldn't script, but that limits their usefulness and shows a lack of >> motivation and curiosity - both highly desirable traits in the workplace. >> IMHO, learn scripting not just to learn it, learn it to make your work more >> efficient. If you can document some manual task, you can automate it. >> Then you can then run that automation on all the servers in your care and >> have time left over, which makes you efficient. In a previous job, I had >> over twice the number of servers as anyone else on my team, and four times >> the company average because I documented and semi-automated the server >> build finishing process, and I automated the daily health check. So all my >> servers were consistent (almost identical) and I was done with my daily >> routine by 10am. This gave me time to help others, project work, find ways >> to improve processes, collateral duties and irritate management. >> >> And then there's security . . . I got a phone call one day asking to >> speak to the head of IT Security. I work at a large organization and >> quickly counted up 11 different security organizations - which one would >> you like to talk to? Click. LOL. We have network, application, >> infrastructure security organizations, and their operations, engineering >> and architectural groups. And don't forget audit, compliance, and CISO. >> Most people think network operations when they think of security, but there >> is so much more to it. Looking at the 10 Domains of the CISSP (Certified >> Information System Security Professional) certification shows there is a >> lot to "IT Security." >> >> So whereas I hate to see security last in your list (most companies put >> security last on their list, too), the reality is you need to have a solid >> foundation doing *something* before you go down that road. Understanding >> the fundamentals and history will help, like . . . why is there a shadow >> file? . . . what is the directory sticky bit used for? . . . why isn't the >> classic File Security Packet suitable for some common security situations? >> Why did the NSA develop SELinux, then absolutely fail at deploying THEIR >> OWN CREATION and allow Edward Snowden* inappropriate access to classified >> materials (hidden question is what does SELinux provide that would have >> prevented this situation; and the bonus question is prove my implied >> assertion false)? If I were to point to one thing in security to pique >> your curiosity, I would suggest looking up the FBI Top Ten for Unix >> Security and understand how to find and fix those problems. As you can >> tell by my questions, I'm not a developer, even though I was (a long time >> ago in a galaxy far, far away), and that's a whole different world, too. >> If coding interests you, pursue certification in secure code development - >> that will help you in many ways. >> >> * I hope you ratbastards at the NSA read this email and understand how >> you utterly failed in the most incompetent way. >> >> Regards, >> >> George Toft >> >> On 8/23/2013 1:11 PM, Paul Mooring wrote: >> >> I think there's a bit of a misconception for how the industry works >> that leads to questions like this. Web design is really more of it's own >> thing centered around graphic design and css, although programs *have* to >> know html these days. Outside that it sounds like you are getting ahead of >> yourself in terms of specialization, everyone doing non-entry level IT work >> needs to know a bit of programming (you can call it scripting if you like) >> and any non-entry level programmer needs to know a bit the systems they >> right code for (sys-admin 101). >> >> If what you're worried about is building up the knowledge needed for a >> career, in my opinion the right approach is "what don't I know?" If you >> have never written any code before don't worry about learning web >> development, go learn some basic scripting simple perl/ruby/python scripts >> and the basics of writing code in general. If you're comfortable with that >> but you don't know how your OS works, go set up a linux server or compile a >> kernel or whatever else interests you. If you already know all that dive >> into something deeper, pick up a new programming language or run through >> linux from scratch. >> >> One more thought, I'm of the opinion you can't "learn security" >> Securing a system is really more of a by-product of intrinsically >> understanding that system and how it can be exploited. That implies that >> if you aren't already very competent writing code and understanding system >> internals you can't be a useful security person until you are. >> >> >> Paul Mooring >> Operations Engineer >> www.opscode.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* plug-discuss-bounces@lists.phxlinux.org >> on behalf of Michael Havens >> >> *Sent:* Friday, August 23, 2013 11:31 AM >> *To:* PLUG >> *Subject:* what to learn >> >> you know, I've asked the question about what to learn multiple times. I >> think I've been asking the wrong question. The new incarnation of my >> question is what do you think I should learn. Programming is one option and >> web design is another. Is there another option i'm not thinking of? I >> guess security is a third. Any others? Things to consider when answering >> that question would be what is needed? What is the potential? What isn't >> being addressed.... things like that. >> >> I have more questions but I guess we should get that question out of >> the way first. >> :-)~MIKE~(-: >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >