On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Phillip Waclawski wrote: > The full, official title of the class is "Linux Operating System" > http://www.maricopa.edu/curriculum/A-C/042cis126dl.html > I agree that we do indeed need to write a class for an "Intro to the Linux > Desktop". > I disagree that we should throw out the command line. While it is not > necessary for the average user to know all the power of the command line, it > is a disservice to our students to pretend it doesn't exist. I have amazed > some windows users with what you can do at the command line in windows, and > of course there is now "powershell" and other tools for windows command > line. A desktop class should only have a very brief/quick intro to the > command line, but I would be opposed to a class that doesn't even mention > it. > > Phil Waclawski > CIS Faculty Mesa Community College > (Technically Dennis and Der Hans' Evening Supervisor ;) > Phil, If you have the evening shift, who watches Dennis and der Hans during the day???? ;-) Mark > > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Ted Gould" > *To: *plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > *Sent: *Monday, May 23, 2011 7:43:21 PM > > *Subject: *Re: Summer Linux Classes at Mesa Community College > > On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 22:25 -0700, Dennis Kibbe wrote: > > >It seems to me that "Introduction to Linux" is probably a bad title > > for > > >the class. It seems from the description it's closer to "Basic > > System > > >Administration of Linux." I, for one, would hope that we're at the > > >point where the introduction to Linux in general doesn't include a > > >command line. > > > > I start out with Ubuntu since it's easy to install anywhere and has > > good support for VirtualBox. I want students to get excited about > > Linux if they have never seen it before. After a couple of weeks with > > Ubuntu we install CentOS either on the system or as a VM. This gives > > them a taste of the Red Hat way of doing things and lets us explore > > some things (runlevels, GRUB) that Ubuntu makes, well, just too > > easy. :-) > > > > From the beginning I show them how the command line can automate a > > simple task that if done in the GUI would take much longer. We do > > spend quite a bit of time working in the CLI. Some students have come > > back and told me that was the part they liked best about the class. > > Others, well, just don't like to type. (This from the generation that > > can type 30 wpm with their thumbs while navigating an LA freeway.) > > That makes sense, to be clear I'm not saying such a class shouldn't > exist, just to the name. It seems that if I had a company that I was > switching all my secretaries from Windows to Linux I might suggest they > take an "Introduction to Linux" to be prepared for the shift. Clearly > this isn't a course for them :-) > > I think that this is a problem that the "Linux Desktop" has in general. > Too many people associate the term "Linux" with servers and think that > it can only exist there. That means we'll never win in the consumer > space. Perhaps that's why it's not "Android Linux" :-) > > > I wonder what things will be like in 3~5 years when keyboards are > > obsolete and everything has a touchscreen? > > On screen keyboards? ;-) > > On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 21:43 -0700, der.hans wrote: > > While I understand what you're saying, I disagree. Yes, basic GNU/Linux > > desktop usage should not require use of the command line. Classes, > > however, should at least give a basic introduction, especially in regards > > to taking advice from the Internet that involves sudo, su or root :). A > > class is a great place to demystify the command line for those unfamiliar > > with it. > > While I'll accept other reasons, this one I won't -- lazy tutorial > writers and blog authors shouldn't be a reason to teach people overly > complex techniques. And, effectively, continue a mythology that you can > only use Linux if you're a techie or able to use the command line well. > As Linux enthusiasts we need to all work to rid the Internet of these > instructions. I tried to convince a couple of folks at Google that they > shouldn't index anything with the string "sudo" in it; I haven't been > successful... yet... > > > Happily for you they specifically require GNOME knowledge :). > > They'll need to upgrade that to Unity knowledge ;-) > > --Ted > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >