Truth is all you really need is 1 good admin per few hundred servers. We are application and system admins doing combo ops and eng work on both the service and server level and we only have ~ 1 admin for ever 200 to 300 servers. On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Nathan England wrote: > Maybe they understand exactly that they get what they pay for, and want > someone like Keith is explaining, which is why they called it a "junior > admin" job to begin with... > > > On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 1:43 PM, keith smith wrote: > >> >> I think that is my point. They may find someone who has skills but no >> record. The new employee spends a year with this company and then leaves >> because he/she now has a year of documented sys admin experience. >> >> Entry level training ground. >> >> ------------------------ >> Keith Smith >> >> --- On *Wed, 4/27/11, Bryan O'Neal > >* wrote: >> >> >> From: Bryan O'Neal >> Subject: Re: Exploitation? >> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" >> Date: Wednesday, April 27, 2011, 1:13 PM >> >> >> That is a quality counter argument. The next question is do people >> understand they get what they pay for... >> >> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 11:20 AM, keith smith >> > wrote: >> >> >> In the past I would have been upset with such an offering. What I see now >> is a pathway. While none of us like to see a sys admin job for $10 - >> $12/hr, most folks would not apply. If this position helps someone move >> from retail sales, delivering pizza, working at Fry's grocery, ETC. Then >> this position has value by providing someone a pathway into what they might >> really like to be doing. >> >> I would imagine whomever takes a position like this will stay just long >> enough to build a resume that will allow them to move to the next level. >> >> ------------------------ >> Keith Smith >> >> --- On *Wed, 4/27/11, Bryan O'Neal > >* wrote: >> >> >> From: Bryan O'Neal >> >> Subject: Re: Exploitation? >> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" >> > >> Date: Wednesday, April 27, 2011, 8:48 AM >> >> >> Commentary on the Linux job market seems entirely on topic to me. But >> that, is just one mans opinion. >> What surprised me is the lack of people countering lisa's argument >> with hard examples of how the market has not been comoditised to the >> point of removing any since of humanity from the common offering. >> >> On 4/25/11, James Finstrom > >> wrote: >> > It already has gone off list someone is abusing their email list. That >> being >> > said my original reply was within the bounds of the discussion if we are >> > taking that approach but the personal attack to my email is >> > what escalated it. We will simply agree to disagree but abuse of users >> off >> > list is not acceptable PERIOD! >> > >> > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Stephen > >> wrote: >> > >> >> ok this really needs to go off list.. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:27 PM, James Finstrom < >> >> jfinstrom@rhinoequipment.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> LOL I am not the one off topic but I am at fault as everyone knows >> your >> >>> 256 shades of bat*** crazy and I made the mistake of pointing it out. >> I >> >>> assume you will take your meds and not hurt yourself or anyone else >> for >> >>> my >> >>> mistake.... >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Lisa Kachold >> >>> >> >wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> James, >> >>>> >> >>>> I accept your apology for the PLUG. >> >>>> >> >>>> Have a better day. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:51 PM, James Finstrom < >> >>>> jfinstrom@rhinoequipment.com> >> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> I am sure It would have been acceptable as a straight relay of the >> job. >> >>>>> What was off topic was the personal commentary to the posters >> >>>>> intentions and >> >>>>> motivations ie: the subject of this email >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Lisa Kachold >> >>>>> >> >wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 8:53 AM, keith smith >> >>>>>> >> >wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> I don't think this is a " Jr cabling/desktop monkey" job. The job >> >>>>>>> post says "...This position is 90% remote...". >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> I think this is a start up and the owner has everyone work out of >> >>>>>>> their home to keep the cost down and they meet at his house. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> About 12 years ago I worked for a consulting company. I was W2 >> and >> >>>>>>> worked from home. He provided my computer, pay, limited benefits, >> >>>>>>> and he >> >>>>>>> worked out of his home. By doing business this way he was able to >> >>>>>>> keep the >> >>>>>>> cost of doing business to a minimum. I believe he started on a >> shoe >> >>>>>>> string >> >>>>>>> and just stayed there. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> I believe this is an opportunity for someone to learn, grow, and >> get >> >>>>>>> some resume material. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> ------------------------ >> >>>>>>> Keith Smith >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> --- On *Mon, 4/25/11, Kevin Fries >* >> wrote: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> From: Kevin Fries >> > >> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Exploitation? >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" < >> >>>>>>> plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> > >> >>>>>>> Date: Monday, April 25, 2011, 7:31 AM >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> I am not sure I would go directly to exploitation. Though I would >> >>>>>>> say >> >>>>>>> they are trying to take advantage slightly. All the requirements >> are >> >>>>>>> 1-3 >> >>>>>>> years. I would assume there is already in place a full admin, so >> >>>>>>> this >> >>>>>>> person would likely be a Jr cabling/desktop monkey. Here in >> Denver >> >>>>>>> that job >> >>>>>>> would go for 40-45k a year and our tech job market is much >> stronger >> >>>>>>> than >> >>>>>>> yours. I lost my job the last day of September last year and >> started >> >>>>>>> my job >> >>>>>>> search Oct 1... started a new job Nov 15th, and I was not the >> first >> >>>>>>> to find >> >>>>>>> one... but that is Denver. Phoenix is a much tougher nut. So >> while >> >>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>> rates are low, and probably not very realistic, I think >> exploitation >> >>>>>>> is a >> >>>>>>> bit strong. I bet they find some nice kid 20-22 years old in the >> >>>>>>> $15-$18 >> >>>>>>> range. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Kevin >> >>>>>>> On Apr 25, 2011 7:54 AM, "Lisa Kachold" >> >>>>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>> > Anyone seen this: >> >>>>>>> http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/sad/2341174027.html >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > --excerpt-- >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > COMPANY is now hiring a Linux / Windows Systems Admin. This is a >> >>>>>>> > Jr. >> >>>>>>> Admin >> >>>>>>> > role. We are looking for a energetic person who has a basic >> >>>>>>> background in >> >>>>>>> > administration. This position is 90% remote but you must reside >> in >> >>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>> > Phoenix area due to weekly meetings. Please see below for skill >> >>>>>>> > set. >> >>>>>>> Please >> >>>>>>> > do not apply if you are a seasoned admin this is a Jr. >> positions. >> >>>>>>> Pay rate >> >>>>>>> > is $10 - $12.50 an hour. >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > Windows Administration - 1 to 3 years >> >>>>>>> > Linux Administration - 1 to 3 years >> >>>>>>> > Networking - 1 to 3 years >> >>>>>>> > UNIX - is a plus >> >>>>>>> > Programing - is a plus >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > * Location: Phoenix Area >> >>>>>>> > * Compensation: $10 - $12.50 >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > CRITICAL THOUGHT: >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > 1) How can you require all the same responsibilities in a >> so-called >> >>>>>>> Junior >> >>>>>>> > Systems Admin of a regular admin as a rationalization to only >> pay >> >>>>>>> them >> >>>>>>> > $12-15 an hour? >> >>>>>>> > 2) This company is clearly not a .ORG - seems they have >> >>>>>>> mis-registered their >> >>>>>>> > domain name? >> >>>>>>> > 3) Don't even sec scan their website... >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > But hey, if you want to work from home, this might be a good >> gig, >> >>>>>>> you can >> >>>>>>> > work 15 minutes on the hour! >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > -- >> >>>>>>> > (503) 754-4452 iPhone >> >>>>>>> > (623) 239-3392 Skype >> >>>>>>> > (623) 688-3392 Google Voice >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > http://www.it-clowns.com >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > "It took me many years but I have gained access to the root >> account >> >>>>>>> and have >> >>>>>>> > removed the user God." -Saros >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Yes, I think this could be a good gig. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> We don't have a job posts area anymore or I would have laid her >> there. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> -- >> >>>>>> (503) 754-4452 iPhone >> >>>>>> (623) 239-3392 Skype >> >>>>>> (623) 688-3392 Google Voice >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> http://www.it-clowns.com >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> "It took me many years but I have gained access to the root account >> >>>>>> and >> >>>>>> have removed the user God." -Saros >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >> >>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> >>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> >>>>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -- >> >>>>> James Finstrom >> >>>>> Rhino Equipment Corp. >> >>>>> http://rhinoequipment.com >> >>>>> Phone: 1-877-RHINO-T1 >> >>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/rhinoequipment >> >>>>> Facebook: http://facebook.com/RhinoEquipment >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >> >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> >>>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> (503) 754-4452 iPhone >> >>>> (623) 239-3392 Skype >> >>>> (623) 688-3392 Google Voice >> >>>> >> >>>> http://www.it-clowns.com >> >>>> >> >>>> "It took me many years but I have gained access to the root account >> and >> >>>> have removed the user God." -Saros >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >> >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> >>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >> >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> >>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from >> >> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. >> >> >> >> Stephen >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > James Finstrom >> > Rhino Equipment Corp. >> > http://rhinoequipment.com >> > Phone: 1-877-RHINO-T1 >> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/rhinoequipment >> > Facebook: http://facebook.com/RhinoEquipment >> > >> >> -- >> Sent from my mobile device >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> > > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Nathan England > I believe in the Constitution and the 4th Amendment. I am innocent and have > nothing to hide, but NO agent of the state crosses my threshhold without a > valid warrant signed by a judge and properly submitted. If we fail to > exercise our rights, we lose them. > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >