Maybe they understand exactly that they get what they pay for, and want someone like Keith is explaining, which is why they called it a "junior admin" job to begin with... On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 1:43 PM, keith smith wrote: > > I think that is my point. They may find someone who has skills but no > record. The new employee spends a year with this company and then leaves > because he/she now has a year of documented sys admin experience. > > Entry level training ground. > > ------------------------ > Keith Smith > > --- On *Wed, 4/27/11, Bryan O'Neal > * wrote: > > > From: Bryan O'Neal > Subject: Re: Exploitation? > To: "Main PLUG discussion list" > Date: Wednesday, April 27, 2011, 1:13 PM > > > That is a quality counter argument. The next question is do people > understand they get what they pay for... > > On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 11:20 AM, keith smith > > wrote: > > > In the past I would have been upset with such an offering. What I see now > is a pathway. While none of us like to see a sys admin job for $10 - > $12/hr, most folks would not apply. If this position helps someone move > from retail sales, delivering pizza, working at Fry's grocery, ETC. Then > this position has value by providing someone a pathway into what they might > really like to be doing. > > I would imagine whomever takes a position like this will stay just long > enough to build a resume that will allow them to move to the next level. > > ------------------------ > Keith Smith > > --- On *Wed, 4/27/11, Bryan O'Neal > * wrote: > > > From: Bryan O'Neal > > Subject: Re: Exploitation? > To: "Main PLUG discussion list" > > > Date: Wednesday, April 27, 2011, 8:48 AM > > > Commentary on the Linux job market seems entirely on topic to me. But > that, is just one mans opinion. > What surprised me is the lack of people countering lisa's argument > with hard examples of how the market has not been comoditised to the > point of removing any since of humanity from the common offering. > > On 4/25/11, James Finstrom > > wrote: > > It already has gone off list someone is abusing their email list. That > being > > said my original reply was within the bounds of the discussion if we are > > taking that approach but the personal attack to my email is > > what escalated it. We will simply agree to disagree but abuse of users > off > > list is not acceptable PERIOD! > > > > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Stephen > > wrote: > > > >> ok this really needs to go off list.. > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:27 PM, James Finstrom < > >> jfinstrom@rhinoequipment.com> > wrote: > >> > >>> LOL I am not the one off topic but I am at fault as everyone knows > your > >>> 256 shades of bat*** crazy and I made the mistake of pointing it out. I > >>> assume you will take your meds and not hurt yourself or anyone else for > >>> my > >>> mistake.... > >>> > >>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Lisa Kachold > >>> > >wrote: > >>> > >>>> James, > >>>> > >>>> I accept your apology for the PLUG. > >>>> > >>>> Have a better day. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:51 PM, James Finstrom < > >>>> jfinstrom@rhinoequipment.com> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I am sure It would have been acceptable as a straight relay of the > job. > >>>>> What was off topic was the personal commentary to the posters > >>>>> intentions and > >>>>> motivations ie: the subject of this email > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Lisa Kachold > >>>>> > >wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 8:53 AM, keith smith > >>>>>> > >wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I don't think this is a " Jr cabling/desktop monkey" job. The job > >>>>>>> post says "...This position is 90% remote...". > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I think this is a start up and the owner has everyone work out of > >>>>>>> their home to keep the cost down and they meet at his house. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> About 12 years ago I worked for a consulting company. I was W2 and > >>>>>>> worked from home. He provided my computer, pay, limited benefits, > >>>>>>> and he > >>>>>>> worked out of his home. By doing business this way he was able to > >>>>>>> keep the > >>>>>>> cost of doing business to a minimum. I believe he started on a > shoe > >>>>>>> string > >>>>>>> and just stayed there. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I believe this is an opportunity for someone to learn, grow, and > get > >>>>>>> some resume material. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ------------------------ > >>>>>>> Keith Smith > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> --- On *Mon, 4/25/11, Kevin Fries >* > wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> From: Kevin Fries > > > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Exploitation? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" < > >>>>>>> plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > > >>>>>>> Date: Monday, April 25, 2011, 7:31 AM > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I am not sure I would go directly to exploitation. Though I would > >>>>>>> say > >>>>>>> they are trying to take advantage slightly. All the requirements > are > >>>>>>> 1-3 > >>>>>>> years. I would assume there is already in place a full admin, so > >>>>>>> this > >>>>>>> person would likely be a Jr cabling/desktop monkey. Here in Denver > >>>>>>> that job > >>>>>>> would go for 40-45k a year and our tech job market is much stronger > >>>>>>> than > >>>>>>> yours. I lost my job the last day of September last year and > started > >>>>>>> my job > >>>>>>> search Oct 1... started a new job Nov 15th, and I was not the first > >>>>>>> to find > >>>>>>> one... but that is Denver. Phoenix is a much tougher nut. So > while > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> rates are low, and probably not very realistic, I think > exploitation > >>>>>>> is a > >>>>>>> bit strong. I bet they find some nice kid 20-22 years old in the > >>>>>>> $15-$18 > >>>>>>> range. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Kevin > >>>>>>> On Apr 25, 2011 7:54 AM, "Lisa Kachold" > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > Anyone seen this: > >>>>>>> http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/sad/2341174027.html > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > --excerpt-- > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > COMPANY is now hiring a Linux / Windows Systems Admin. This is a > >>>>>>> > Jr. > >>>>>>> Admin > >>>>>>> > role. We are looking for a energetic person who has a basic > >>>>>>> background in > >>>>>>> > administration. This position is 90% remote but you must reside > in > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> > Phoenix area due to weekly meetings. Please see below for skill > >>>>>>> > set. > >>>>>>> Please > >>>>>>> > do not apply if you are a seasoned admin this is a Jr. positions. > >>>>>>> Pay rate > >>>>>>> > is $10 - $12.50 an hour. > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > Windows Administration - 1 to 3 years > >>>>>>> > Linux Administration - 1 to 3 years > >>>>>>> > Networking - 1 to 3 years > >>>>>>> > UNIX - is a plus > >>>>>>> > Programing - is a plus > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > * Location: Phoenix Area > >>>>>>> > * Compensation: $10 - $12.50 > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > CRITICAL THOUGHT: > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > 1) How can you require all the same responsibilities in a > so-called > >>>>>>> Junior > >>>>>>> > Systems Admin of a regular admin as a rationalization to only pay > >>>>>>> them > >>>>>>> > $12-15 an hour? > >>>>>>> > 2) This company is clearly not a .ORG - seems they have > >>>>>>> mis-registered their > >>>>>>> > domain name? > >>>>>>> > 3) Don't even sec scan their website... > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > But hey, if you want to work from home, this might be a good gig, > >>>>>>> you can > >>>>>>> > work 15 minutes on the hour! > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > -- > >>>>>>> > (503) 754-4452 iPhone > >>>>>>> > (623) 239-3392 Skype > >>>>>>> > (623) 688-3392 Google Voice > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > http://www.it-clowns.com > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > "It took me many years but I have gained access to the root > account > >>>>>>> and have > >>>>>>> > removed the user God." -Saros > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Yes, I think this could be a good gig. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> We don't have a job posts area anymore or I would have laid her > there. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> (503) 754-4452 iPhone > >>>>>> (623) 239-3392 Skype > >>>>>> (623) 688-3392 Google Voice > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://www.it-clowns.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> "It took me many years but I have gained access to the root account > >>>>>> and > >>>>>> have removed the user God." -Saros > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > >>>>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> James Finstrom > >>>>> Rhino Equipment Corp. > >>>>> http://rhinoequipment.com > >>>>> Phone: 1-877-RHINO-T1 > >>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/rhinoequipment > >>>>> Facebook: http://facebook.com/RhinoEquipment > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > >>>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> (503) 754-4452 iPhone > >>>> (623) 239-3392 Skype > >>>> (623) 688-3392 Google Voice > >>>> > >>>> http://www.it-clowns.com > >>>> > >>>> "It took me many years but I have gained access to the root account > and > >>>> have removed the user God." -Saros > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------- > >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > >>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------- > >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > >>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from > >> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. > >> > >> Stephen > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------- > >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > James Finstrom > > Rhino Equipment Corp. > > http://rhinoequipment.com > > Phone: 1-877-RHINO-T1 > > Twitter: http://twitter.com/rhinoequipment > > Facebook: http://facebook.com/RhinoEquipment > > > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Nathan England I believe in the Constitution and the 4th Amendment. I am innocent and have nothing to hide, but NO agent of the state crosses my threshhold without a valid warrant signed by a judge and properly submitted. If we fail to exercise our rights, we lose them.