Hey Larry, I agree with Lisa's advice in her previous post. I think rhce is respected. I'd like to try again for my rhce. I only got rhct when I did the rhce exam, because in the second part of the exam there is a lot of work to do quickly, and there's not a lot of spare time to read through docs, especially when setting up and testing iptables. I'd gladly hold or attend study sessions with the goal of setting up linux services & locking down the system in an increasingly speedy way, as that would be the key (for me) to succeeding next time. Maybe our fist one can piggyback on the installfest, as there seems to be room at UAT for a few more people to install and re-install linux? Regards, Kaia Taylor DevSA group -- tis-dco-devsa - jumpword devsa http://dco-sps.schwab.com/sites/devsa/welcome desk 602-977-5157 pager 6025785439@messaging.sprintpcs.com or white pages All e-mail sent to or from this address will be received by the Charles Schwab corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival and review by someone other than the recipient. ________________________________ From: plug-discuss-bounces@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-bounces@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Larry Lauer Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 7:01 PM To: 'Main PLUG discussion list' Subject: RE: Certifications as a means of gaining knowlage I just realized that when I first sent this my phone didn't reply to the list. Sorry David for the multiple copies. Hi all I have just been a list voyeur for awhile. I was wondering if others are pursuing any Linux certifications now and if there are any study groups -classes going that you may know of. Thanks. I also have collected over the years some certs from Novell, Cisco, sans, M$.... It has cost a ton but I think that it has been worth it by getting me interviews and jobs. Now I want to focus on Linux and security more. I think employers also see a certification as your potential to follow through with what you start and a basic understanding like David said. Enough of my rambling. Thanks. -Larry Sent from my BlackBerry(r) smartphone with SprintSpeed From: plug-discuss-bounces@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-bounces@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of David Munson Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:15 PM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Re: Certifications as a means of gaining knowlage Certifications can be useful for getting your foot in the door when you may not have the experience yet. Granted, most certifications say you should have X amount of time doing Y type of work, but I had very little experience with the subject matter when I passed the A+ and Network+ certifications. When I go after a certification, it's because I'm looking to get a handle on the basics for jobs related to it, and because it's something to point to when I talk to HR about my qualifications. Additionally, certifications SUGGEST that you have a certain level of knowledge about a set of topics. I can spend six months doing network support work and never learn a thing about fiber if I'm at a small business, but a Network+ certification SUGGESTS that I at least know the difference between SC and MTRJ connectors, as well as single-mode and multimode fiber. To put it in fewer words, certifications are good for covering the basics of a subject, and might get you an interview, but it's the actual experience that'll probably land you the job. On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Bryan O'Neal wrote: I too do not believe certifications are worth much. With the exception of a selling point to customers who don't know better or to help lower your insurance premiums. That said they CAN be a good path to focus your learning and gain knowledge however that knowledge is not usually worth more then a few months of intensive on the job training. On a side note I am mojor pet peve, in that I hate companies that requier certain certifications for emplyment... If I were to colect ever cert I have seen "requierd" for job I was otherwise well qualified for I would have to spend about two years and about $100K to obtain them. At which point I could get a few years of use and then have to repeat the process ;) If you want your people to have a prticuler cert you higher the person and make continued employment contengent on getting the cert. On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 6:49 AM, Lisa Kachold wrote: On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Steve Phariss wrote: Question to the group. I know that certificates in and of themselves are not a good indicator of skill. But are they a worthwhile goal for knowlege sake? In particular, I have been faced with a couple jobs that required Vertualization skills. I have very little enterprise experience with vertulization so was concidering taking a bootcamp course that concludes with a vertulization cert (Certified Virtualization Expert(tm) -CVE(tm)) Does anyone have any experience with the CVE or Bootcamp classes in general? Steve In the old days, we had what were considered "academics". These were the people who could stand around and spout a million useless details about technology, but in the actual trenches, had no if/then/therefore logical skills. They were like autistics, in that they could memorize rote, but it often seemed as if the people who actually could excel at the times when someone had to pull raw intelligence and creativity out of a hat, they failed horribly. The people who actually had to work in the fields often found the certifications to be far from what was required to actually master a subject - epic fail for those selling technology or selling management that certifications were actually a good gauge of mastery. So, what started to happen was people who actually were deeply immersed in technology started to attend bootcamps which were given often during a convention, where a full immersal of the student into the subject matter's pure "academics" would occur, whereupon all the useless facts that are never used when implementing and maintaining the technology get retained just long enough to pass the certification. In this way, everyone could give a Class A subnet answer (even in the days when everyone only used Class C subnetting) for instance for a Cisco CCNA (which I obtained in 1999). I certified in IBM High Speed Networking Technology in the 1980's at USBank, and it was a complete exercise in rote memorization. I certified on Websphere V in 2006, and nothing had really changed; little on the test actually translated to being able to manage application servers in any real world shop. I doubt very much this has changed with regard to Virtualization quizzes - except that Linux certifications are generally excellent (especially the RHCE - which is a complete PRACTICAL test, no reference materials are allowed, and the student must master the subject on a virtual slice or real machine during the test). A RHCE is sold to businesses as a way to get a cheaper rate on their RHEL licenses. I was hired in a contract gig to build new application servers (8 Prod/Dev + 1 database all Dell 1950's 2850's) and clean up Apache security and little Linux issues while they sent their Microsoft staff to RHCE Fast Track school (Choicehotels.com): http://www.supershareware.com/info/whizlabs-rhce--red-hat-linux-certific ation--exam-simulator.html http://www.scribd.com/doc/16314048/RHCE-Red-Hat-Certified-Engineer-Linux -100-Success-Secrets-on-RHCE-Linux-Test-Preparation-Study-Guides-Practic e-Exams-Braindumps-Certification-Exa https://www.redhat.com/certification/rhce/?s_kwcid=TC|3636|rhce||S|p|328 2576651 www.linuxlearningcentre.com/content/prepguide.pdf The RHCE fast track (5 day type of bootcamp) is the best way to certify as well because Linux people generally don't require a 3 month class, and simply get in and do things quickly to grasp a course: https://www.redhat.com/courses/rh300_rhce_rapid_track_course_and_rhce_ex am/ Certifications have been critisized for being "marketing manipulation" rather than actual gauges of skill. For instance, a company will sell certifications when a product is big, and require certifications for cheaper rates. But if you don't already have a good history with certifications and your goal is simply to get a grasp of the technology, a certification is suspect, as a solution. Currently virtualization providers are fighting it out over a "new hot market". And the technology is relatively young (unless you are IBM). So, Microsoft, XEN and Vmware --- you get the idea from the "Products of the Year 2008": GOLD AWARD: VMware ESXi 3.5 U2 VMware's free ESXi leads the virtualization platform market by continuing to offer the greatest functionality and highest value of all hypervisors available on today's market. READ MORE SILVER AWARD: Microsoft Hyper-V 1.0 "Microsoft's standalone Hyper-V is a great option for a free hypervisor," one judge wrote. "I give Microsoft a lot of credit for such a strong new showing." READ MORE BRONZE AWARD: Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5.2 If Linux is your bag, then the Xen-based virtualization bundled with Red Hat's enterprise offering is a high-performance virtualization option and excellent value, judges reported. READ MORE I would get a general linux certification before I would get a virtualization certification. And since you are asking, I would point you to the RHCE. (503)754-4452 wiki.obnosis.com scientology.obnosis.com --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss