On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 4:46 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Alan Dayley wrote: > >> On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Joshua Zeidner >> wrote: >> > >> > but the fact that these people haven't showed up would indicate to an >> > objective mind that perhaps we don't have the full story. There have >> been >> > quite a few credible stories of 911 witnesses being harassed and >> > threatened. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rZ_K67OHWw >> > >> > this isn't a new take on this subject, but the fact that we have >> someone >> > right here who claims to possess such evidence, but refuses to produce >> it is >> > a bit disconcerting. His alibi: that people mock and deride him when he >> > posts the pictures. If anything he will be mocked if he doesn't post >> the >> > pictures. >> >> Not-so-hypothetical situation: >> >> A amateur photograph is presented. Taken in a room of any abandoned >> house, there is an artifact of light to one side that looks remarkably >> like a see-through woman in an old fashioned dress. >> >> The believer will point out all the reasons, some very logical, why >> this is a picture of a ghost. The skeptic will point out all the >> reasons, some very logical, why it is some flare or flaw in the film >> or something and therefore not a ghost. >> >> Neither will convince the other, no matter how long they discuss. >> Why? Because they each see through their own prejudices and beliefs. >> They each see their own truth. > > > just a quick point... its an asymmetrical conflict. On one hand you have > an 'official' investigation with a (semi) consistent story and credible > official testimony. On the other hand you have a mob of angry theorists > speaking at varying levels of anonymity, some which may be correct, all > being considered as one group that shares the same level of credibility. I > certainly feel there is some kind of subterfuge going on here, but that > doesn't mean that I agree with every person who disagrees with the 911 > Commission Report. > > Now to the topic at hand: While I too question and wonder about all >> the events surrounding 9/11/2001, I generally think the people on the >> two extremes of the discussions will never reconcile. And, no matter >> the evidence presented, including silly government actions like >> confiscating video and film, very few will ever change sides or >> convince one to believe the other story. >> >> If Charles does or does not produce photos, it will do little to >> decide the debate here or in the world at large. > > > Given that he did just post his pictures... the fact remains there is no > compelling evidence of a plane hitting the pentagon. Any reasoning > individual would question the fact that something as big as a plane would > likely leave incontrovertible evidence if it struck such an important > building in such a crowded area. Charles claims he did see a plane, and one > interesting thing I just noticed on the CNN video- this person is saying the > the plane 'stopped short' of the Pentagon, so does seem to agree that a > plane was there as Charles corroborates. > interesting... I 'm really no expert in the Pentagon case, I cast aspersions on the official story due to personally known facts concerning the NYC scene. After doing a few minutes of research it would appear that the notion of there being a plane in the area despite something other than a plane hitting the Pentagon is hardly a new one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5D2K19Y-aI&feature=related . Which is interesting considering I was about to discount this camp altogether due to Charles' testimony. just to make it clear, I do not subscribe to any and every kooky theory you may have read concerning these attacks. The only thing you may assume about my viewpoint is what I have stated here. -jmz > > > >> The believers will >> continue to believe and the skeptics won't. And if emotions run high >> in an unproductive debate the only result will be broken >> relationships. > > > There is a controversy, and there is a truth behind it. -jmz > > > -- > "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War > IV will be fought with sticks and stones." --Albert Einstein > > - http://www.joshuazeidner.com/ > -- "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." --Albert Einstein - http://www.joshuazeidner.com/