This has been one hell of a flame war! Regarding biking to work, this keeps me on the side walk regardless of Tempe laws. If a car is going to kill me, they need to jump the curb first. Riding a bike in this town requires you to assume every single car on the road is actively trying to kill you. A rule I ride by is "laws of physics always trump right of way" On a side note, in the Netherlands, if a driver hits a bicyclist, regardless of reason, the driver is 100% at fault. A bicyclist could wait for a car to come down a road, then throw themselves in front of the car, and the car is (criminally) at fault. Eric On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 10:47 AM, koder wrote: > I wish I could talk and do more to the people. There are some who seem > to think they own the road and if you are biking, pedal or motorized > that they not only have the right of way, but a legal right to run you > down. > > I encountered a trucker who tried to kill me. It put a stop to riding a > bike to work. > > Since this is the reality of the world we live in it is wise to factor > it into the cost/benefit equation, as distinguished from the ROI factor > I referenced earlier. > > We won't even get into drunks who NEED to drive drunk so they can keep > their jobs, or drunken priests who get a get out of jail free card. > > Harold > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Lund > Reply-To: Main PLUG discussion list > > To: iscreamkid@gmail.com, Main PLUG discussion list > > Subject: Re: OT - Have you seen this ad? > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 01:34:54 -0700 > > You might want to talk to the people that hit the bikers then. > I almost died. > > Thanks, > Dan Lund > It is necessary for him who lays out a state and arranges laws for it > to presuppose that all men are evil and that they are always going to > act according to the wickedness of their spirits whenever they have > free scope. > -Niccolo Machiavelli > > > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 12:14 PM, koder wrote: > > Don't forget to factor in safety. One good wreck and your cost per mile > > can go up with great rapidity. I am getting tired of attending funerals > > of bikers. It is only two so far, but that is two too many. > > > > I doubt you have ever had a problem. . . yet. > > > > Harold > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dan Lund > > Reply-To: Main PLUG discussion list > > > > To: Main PLUG discussion list > > Subject: Re: OT - Have you seen this ad? > > Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 00:34:08 -0700 > > > > I find a 50-55 mpg motorcycle helps out tremendously. My last tank > > ran $0.07/mile, and I was pounding the throttle. > > > > The metric is always $/mile, since the miles you drive always change > > depending on what you are doing. Also, driving style (highway, > > surface roads, acceleration amounts, etc) has a huge impact on fuel > > economy. > > I've found that the Toyota Corolla gets 40 mpg on the highway on the > > long-run between Phoenix and San Diego. (~360 miles) Not too shabby, > > about 9 gallons... pretty good when my motorcycle uses about 7 gallons > > on that trip. > > > > Thanks, > > Dan Lund > > It is necessary for him who lays out a state and arranges laws for it > > to presuppose that all men are evil and that they are always going to > > act according to the wickedness of their spirits whenever they have > > free scope. > > -Niccolo Machiavelli > > > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 8:05 AM, Eric Cope wrote: > >> I wouldn't be too excited about 32 mpg (I saw the 37s and 38s, thats > >> better). Over 40 and thats good... (side note, have you safely aired up > your > >> tires to 40-45psi, that will get you 1-3 more mpg). The true metric is > not > >> $/mile, but $/day. > >> > >> $/gallon * gallons/mile * miles/day = $/day. If you spend $.10/mile but > >> commute to LA from Phoenix, its still wasteful... but if you spend > $1.5/day > >> on fuel, thats making a difference. because if its only $1.50 a day, > then > >> you could probably bike to work... > >> > >> let me know what your solar experiences are. I found they take 20+ years > to > >> pay for themselves with warranties under 20 years. Are you familiar with > the > >> maintenance of solar? > >> > >> And you didn't answer my second question. If we as a population are > willing > >> to do it ourselves (which is always better), why do we require our > leaders > >> to bully us into doing it ourselves? > >> > >> keep up the good fight! > >> > >> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 7:19 PM, Jason Spatafore > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> I bought a car that gets 32+ MPG constantly. > >>> > >>> See attached spreadsheet. :) > >>> > >>> Getting ready to have solar added to my house. 8.6kwH unit so I > generate a > >>> surplus. > >>> > >>> Notice how I measure performance on $/mile. That's what really matters. > I > >>> was ticked when it hit .10/mile. I want to see $.05/mile. > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: Eric Cope > >>> To: huertanix@gmail.com ; Main PLUG discussion list > >>> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 4:55 PM > >>> Subject: Re: OT - Have you seen this ad? > >>> Sorry to start the flame war... > >>> Stephen, what are you doing to stop the "addiction"? > >>> Why do we need our "leaders" to do it for us? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Eric > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 4:23 PM, wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Link is relevant to my interests but please add an "OT" to the subject > >>>> line next time. :) > >>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Stephen Wiebelhaus > >>>> > >>>> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:54:31 > >>>> To: > >>>> Subject: Have you seen this ad? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------- > >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > >>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >>>> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------- > >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > >>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >>> > >>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >>> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1637 - Release Date: > 8/27/2008 > >>> 7:01 AM > >>> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------- > >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > >>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------- > >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > >>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------- > >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >> > > --------------------------------------------------- > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >