'guess I'll come out from behind my lurking rock..... If we must dichotomize the issue, then in addition to Michael Moore's one-sided perspective of health care, you should watch John Stossel's 'Sick in America' [1] reports -- it touches on facts Sicko neglected to report. Together, a more accurate depiction of the pros and cons of government health care is painted. [1] http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel (Sorry, no direct link to videos) On 2/13/08, keith smith wrote: > > You have choices. I think you are self-employed which puts all the > choices in your hands. > > You can go back to old style insurance and get an indemnity plan where you > pay 20% and they pay 80%, you can choose any HMO or PPO you like, or you can > become self-insured. > > You have more options than any other person in America because you are > self-employed. > > > > *Craig White * wrote: > > very small risk pool and is the type of thinking that leaves people > declaring bankruptcy from a single event. > > Craig > > On Wed, 2008-02-13 at 07:40 -0800, keith smith wrote: > > You can become self insured. > > > > > > > > Craig White wrote: > > On Tue, 2008-02-12 at 21:12 -0700, Jason Hayes wrote: > > > On Tuesday 12 February 2008 7:14:33 pm Kristian Erik > > Hermansen wrote: > > > > > > > > +1. For Michale Moore, you could tell he was holding back > > to try > > > > being "fair and balanced". Health care in the USA is a > > joke compared > > > > to the UK. You don't believe it? Watch the movie and ask > > any of your > > > > friends who have had care in both places... > > > > > > Or you can ask me. I endured the Canadian health care system > > for over 30 > > > years. To clear things up, it's not the panacea you appear > > to think it is. > > > The US health care system -- expensive as it may be -- is > > light years ahead > > > of the Canadian and British systems. > > > > > > A few quick examples from my own life experience. > > > > > > 1) I had to wait over 18 months to get a simple, outpatient > > operation to fix > > > an inguinal hernia in late 2004. The only reason I was > > "rushed" in at the 18 > > > month mark was that I was to the point where I could barely > > function any > > > more. If I hadn't pushed the issue, the surgeon's office > > would have let me > > > sit on the waiting list for my originally scheduled date -- > > six months later. > > > > > > 2) My mother waited over 2 years to get one hip replaced and > > has waited over > > > two more years to get the other done (four years and still > > waiting). > > > > > > 4) My wife's step-grandfather was diagnosed with prostate > > cancer in November > > > last year and was told that he will need to wait until June > > to get in to see > > > the specialist to determine how they will treat his cancer. > > Eight months of > > > letting the cancer grow before they will even take a first > > look at it. > > > > > > 5) My wife and I lived in Calgary, AB for five years. In > > that time, we were > > > only able to get our kids into a pediatrician once, after we > > were referred by > > > another doctor. Additionally, none of the doctors we could > > find were taking > > > on new patients, so any time we needed health care, we went > > to walk-ins > > > (urgent care) or the emergency room. > > > > > > Those are the first few examples that come to mind. If I > > needed to, I could > > > dig up a lot more. > > > > > > Regarding your first assertion, Michael Moore doesn't have > > the first clue what > > > life is like under socialized health care and you don't see > > him traveling to > > > Cuba for his check ups and surgery, do you? > > > > > > The simple truth is that people are dying on wait lists in > > Canada, Great > > > Britain, and France. Worse, they're made to wait like that > > after having paid > > > 50%+ taxes for their "free" health care. > > > > > > Don't fall for it. The grass is not greener on the other > > side of that fence. > > ---- > > oh but it is... > > > > In any of the countries you mention above, you are not subject > > to > > exclusions for pre-existing conditions, large deductibles, > > medical > > decisions made by health insurance companies and of course, of > > all the > > countries mention, this is the only one where people routinely > > have to > > declare bankruptcy because of the phenomenal costs of health > > care, and > > this hits both insured and uninsured people. > > > > Then add to the equation the vast numbers of uninsured, the > > percentage > > of the nations GDP that is given to the health care industry > > (and > > rising) and the cost escalations for health care the last 5 > > years and > > the projected increases in health care costs over the next 5 > > years and > > it is clearly a system that is deeply broken. > > > > For every 'horror story' that you list above, there are surely > > 10 horror > > stories in the American health care system... > > > > > http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-kaiser4may04,0,335770.story?track=tothtml > > > > Oh yeah, this is a great health care system we have here in > > the US... > > > > Craig > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - > > PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ > > Keith Smith > > (520) 207-9877 > > PHP Programmer > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > > Search. > > --------------------------------------------------- > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > ------------------------ > Keith Smith > (520) 207-9877 > PHP Programmer > > ------------------------------ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >