Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> 
>   Honestly, I've been through this with one group already here in
> Phoenix.  Usually if something happens someone doesn't like, they evoke
> the hidden and mysterious powers of moderation.  Behind this somewhat
> ridiculous fig-leaf is some callow sheepish dude who has the password to
> the listserv.  Very funny stuff in my view.

I know of 3 members of the Steering Committee that have the list server
password.  Our philosophy with it can be summed up by: "Don't touch it
unless it's broken."  There are two main reasons for this: 1 - Who has
time to moderate? and 2 - There is no time to moderate.  The side effect
of this is that we have a list without moderation or power struggles.

We have even been accused of neglecting administration duties because
it's still sending out email so we don't want to mess with it.

And we don't have the time to moderate.  ;^)

Obviously if moderation became necessary then policies would have to be
established and fairly implemented.  But who wants that headache when
the group does so well?

>   I can say this: without clear leadership, there will be no clear
> purpose.  If the person who recently offered up his grandfatherly
> opinion of the whole thing feels he is in the position of leadership
> here, he should make that abundantly clear.  Not because I am
> challenging that leadership, I would just like to know who is running
> the show if anyone.

I think it is a mistake to say that PLUG does not have a clear purpose.
 It's just a very broad purpose.  Maybe that's the same as saying it's
not clear, I'm not sure.  There are times I wish PLUG had more structure
and visionary direction.  But what it provides is a social connection
for individuals to build clear directions that they care about.  Many
times such efforts don't stick but sometimes, like the monthly
InstallFest, they do.  And the social freedom to do such things is very
valuable.

Any person can establish "leadership" in PLUG by doing something that
other members follow.  That person is then leader of what they created.
  Anyone's "grandfatherly opinion" is just as valuable as mine even if
it comes from one who is "just a member."  Meritocracy works that way.

In this regard PLUG is like a microcosm of the FS/OSS community.
Someone wants to start a project, they do.  People follow or don't.
Many times people establish competing projects for good or bad reasons.
 Mostly, though, for any given project, a few in each category become
well known and others contribute to them instead of competing.

In PLUG this is how the "leaders" come about.  And for the most part
people don't try to lead where a leader already exists.  Alex is in
charge of the InstallFests because he set it up and committed to make
them happen.  He is now on the Steering Committee too.

So, I guess there are individuals "running the show" in their own sphere
of leadership.  But, taking me as an example, any "power" I have would
drop away instantly as soon as the group stops following me or asks me
to stop.

>   I am in touch with Jason and I want to make it clear that it was not
> my intention to smear him.  I do not make any claims against his
> character.  He has made job postings on here after our work engagement
> and I made no attempt to interfere with that.  I asked for a simple
> thing, and my intention here was to help clear up some confusion.  I
> will make a sincere attempt to reconcile our disputes.

An excellent attitude and goal.  I hope you succeed.

>   In a general, I have recently moved out of Phoenix, primarily because
> I found the work environment here quite lacking.  I could tell you quite
> a number of stories of my experiences around here[1], but there is a
> sufficient trail of listserv activity to point to some of my
> experiences.  I think that Phoenix is currently facing some serious
> challenges as a city... and there are going to be inevitable changes
> whether they are welcomed by old-timers or not.  I am quite sure that
> recent activity in financial markets has hit a number of people on this
> list directly.

Interesting point of view.  I agree that much of the "tech buzz" found
in Silicon Valley or Austin has been lacking in the Phoenix area.  But
my recent perception is the opposite.

- azgroups.com throws an annual event at places like the Orphium Theater.
- PLUG has monthly InstallFests
- We just had the first Phoenix Happy Dev House
(http://devphx.pbwiki.com/FrontPage) a couple of weeks ago
- The 3rd Desert Code Camp (http://desertcodecamp.com) to be held next
month has about 100 sessions booked, filling all Saturday slots and
bleeding over into Sunday.
- There are at least two Ruby groups in the valley.
(http://www.rubyaz.org/ and http://azonrails.org/)
- Google is hiring
- Ebay/PayPal is hiring

There are lots of exciting tech things happening in the valley now.
PLUG is a part of it and should be more of a part of it.  I'm very
optimistic about the valley and the tech culture that continues to
bubble up!

>   To address Joseph S.'s comments, for a list or a business venue to
> function correctly, you have to support buyers AND sellers, employers
> AND employees.  I know that a number of regular contributors are of the
> hobbyist temperament, and see these kinds of points to be irrelevant and
> annoying.  Banning feedback on job ads may seem like a great way to
> attract employers, because they feel safer in making whatever claims
> they please.  The problem is, that the actual value of the ads degrade,
> and developers start to take a somewhat non-committal attitude towards
> working with these parties[3].  What phoenix currently needs is some
> kind of reputable venue for IT contracting, and I've voiced these
> concerns before[2].  Silicon Valley (where I currently reside) is
> literally bulging at the seams with out-of-control cost scales and
> somewhat of a vacuum of lucrative ideas.  There are people here who make
> $300K a year designing applications to scrape your address book from
> your gmail account.  Phoenix /does/ have potential in that sense, but it
> lacks the legal and commercial infrastructure to support the kind of
> commercial activity found in Silicon Valley.  This infrastructure was
> built by folks not unlike yourselves, who just have a basic fascination
> with technology and its possibilities and decided make the government
> work for them instead of against them.

We (PLUG) and we (tech people in Phoenix) are creating all of this.
It's not a culture like Silicon Valley...yet.  It's up to us to make it
real.  Based on what I have seen happening, we are on the path to that, IMO.

>    Alan, I appreciate your attitude here- I think you are looking out
> for whats best for all the participants here.  thanks.  jmz

You are welcome and thank you for the thoughts.  Grease the skids, get
along and try to see the way others see even if I still don't agree.
That's what I try to do.

And I'm selfish.  I like PLUG and benefit directly from it.  So, I
contribute back in the ways I enjoy.  Just as I hope we all do.

Alan