Patrick C: I hope you won't be insulted by this remark which is intended as a compliment: pretty good insights, for someone of any age. (I was almost going to end it with "for someone who is your age", but then I thought it might seem like a bit of a "backhanded" compliment; in any event, it is intended as a positive remark). -- Mike Schwartz Glendale AZ schwartz@acm.org Mike.L.Schwartz@gmail.com On 3/28/07, Patrick C wrote: > > As someone who joined this list at 15 (I won't be 16 until July), I think > it's appropriate here for me to add my "two cents." > > I've seen a few "flames" and a few clashes of opinion on this mailing list > since joining, but for the most part, that's been unintimidating. A mailing > list is an easy forum to walk away from. Flames typically aren't directed at > me, and so as someone watching from the sides, I don't observe anything > other than just people. People don't get along sometimes. That's just the > way it works. > > Another aspect of this list, in my opinion, that diminishes the potential > abrasiveness of so-called flames is that this list is so informally > structured. Because it is, there really are no "higher ups." This list > basically consists of either newbies or old-timers, but as far as I can > tell, it doesn't say which is better than other. Respect is earned not > simply through technical knowledge, but through helpfulness and personal > presentation. Because of this, if I'm faced with a personal insult, I can > handle it because it's just some guy; he doesn't mean anything, he doesn't > lead the group, he may not even provide direction for the group. In a > community where there are no formal leaders, there can also be no individual > who is completely reflective of the community. > > The other thing, maybe for me, is that before I really started > participating in this list, I attended a meeting and an installfest or two. > Attending those allowed me to meet many individuals who belong to this list, > and seeing them in an environment based around simple helpfulness at > installfests or sharing of knowledge at a meeting reminds you that the > ultimate goals of the members of this list are essentially the same: simple > participation, simple community, and that despite whatever views clash and > however brusque any particular member is, this list consists of peoplethat have feelings, moral judgements, and a general good will towards each > other. > > I specifically remember the first meeting I attended, there was supposed > to be a brief presentation on desktop acceleration. I had no history with > this group, I wasn't active on the mailing list. I said I had done a little > playing around with XGL and AIGLX, and thought I might be able to add > something to the presentation, or show a few tricks. The so-called "leaders" > of PLUG just let me (at least try to) do my thing without considering my age > or my lack of history with the group. This group is full of knowledgeable, > helpful, and ultimately (and most importantly) genuinely good people. If you > haven't seen this or noticed this, I encourage you to attend a meeting or an > installfest, and see for yourself. > > You may find friendly faces more inviting than dark words on a bright > screen, even if you've already found the list itself to be inviting. > > --Patrick C. > > On 3/28/07, Nathan Aubrey wrote: > > > > > > I don't know how old Michael is, but I just have the assumption he's a > > young > > guy, (sorry if you're older!). If I had been 14 or 15 when I joined this > > list > > I would have quickly lost my interest in Linux because of the negative > > attitudes of many people I've encountered here over the years. I have > > been on > > this list for several years, and I've been using Linux since slackware > > first > > came out. I don't feel the need to impress anyone, or push my seniority > > because I've used Linux longer than most people on this list. Nor do I > > feel > > stupid when I ask an extemely simple questiuon that I should have known > > better. I take part in this list because there is a great wealth of > > knowledge > > amongst the pluggers, and I enjoy learning things that others do. > > I felt bad that someone would jump on Michael for something so innocent, > > and I > > don't mean to get political, but frankly it pisses me off that someone > > would > > do that to someone who is trying to learn and just a little excited. > > How many times have you been there before? I've been there many times. > > Unfortunaley I've stumbled on cool things many times in the past, but > > avoided > > posting them to this list for this exact reason, I knew I would be > > ignored or > > blasted for wasting a few neurons. > > > > Please excuse the rant, but you asked for opinions! > > > > Nathan > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - [...]