On 9/25/06, Derek Neighbors <derek@gnue.org> wrote:
>
>
> On Sep 25, 2006, at 11:21 AM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >>    This is a matter of opinion... in my estimation its best to
> >> establish the group on sound principles and clear intentions and
> >> problems will not arise at a later time.  Some of these groups are
> >> very serious.  Some even print up business cards.  I think that
> >> the reluctance to make structure is really about deferring
> >> authoritative decisions, which quickly degrades into anti-social
> >> behavior, which is something I hope the group will not be about.
>
> I agree that organization is important, but what I was suggesting is
> the "don't optimize too early" principle.  Rather apply the amount of
> organization it takes to do it right at the right time.  As many
> know, I personally think that PLUG could do better with a more formal
> organization, but that said they have actually been fairly successful
> because "doing" was more important that "posturing" in their
> infancy.  I think you can see the Ruby and Refresh groups struggling
> with this sort of thing as well.  Spend time early "organizing" and
> you never get anything off the ground.  Get something off the ground
> and don't add organization quick enough and it becomes impossible to
> put a structure to it.
>
> >   PLUG is not a person and therefore does not qualify as a team
> > contact.
>
> So put yourself as contact and get it started.   Anyone that wants to
> complain about it should have gotten off their ass and done it
> themselves. :)
>
>
> >    I am not a huge fan of physical meetings.  They are a great way
> > to socialize, etc. but really are not necessary and often
> > needlessly time consuming.  Newsgroups are definitely interesting
> > because people can formulate strong opinions about someone without
> > ever having met them in real life, which can be quite unnatural for
> > some.  A lot can happen through email/blog/forum/etc. if it is
> > taken seriously, which it rarely is.  Thanks for the input Derek, jmz
>
> Physical meetings are necessary for networking purposes.  That is why
> I proposed using EXISTING meetings to gather at so you don't have to
> have own formal meetings (which I think would be largely a waste).
> This gets you exposure so that there are people to build a virtual
> community around that can do something for the LoCo.  My best advice
> is just do it.  I learned a long time ago that sitting around trying
> to get "consensus" in the software world leads to dead ends.  Doing
> something only leads to dead ends half the time. : )


  Kim Berry of The Programmers Guild likens organizing programmers to
"Herding Cats".  I think that is an accurate analogy.  But organization does
happen, and when it does it serves to show who is a nerd and who is a
genius.

  Thanks Derek, and feel free to call if you'd like to chat about Ubuntu.

 -jmz



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JOSHUA M. ZEIDNER
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