Am 23. Jul, 2015 schwätzte Stephen Partington so: > For all of the weirdness in the Pearson hiring process the Hiring Manager > writes the requirements in full for any posting. Not HR or whomever. That's good news. It also explains a few jobs ads I saw years ago... :) Our previous recruiter at the current job worked to get descriptions from the hiring managers, but often couldn't squeeze it out of them :(. Some of that was out of the hands of the hiring managers as they would get headcount approval for one thing, but really need something else. ciao, der.hans > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 6:46 AM, David Schwartz > wrote: > >> The current process of matching resumes with job reqs passed from managers >> to HR to recruiters / web sites to developers and back is totally broken. >> >> We have hiring managers on one end who have been out of the loop for a >> while and don’t seem to understand a lot of the tech used by the people >> they manage. >> >> They write a job req and give it to HR. >> >> The HR people are handling job reqs for the entire company and tend to not >> be very well-versed in tech either. They “polish up” the ads a bit then >> post them online. >> >> Recruiters get hold of them and tweak them a bit. >> >> Then actual devs read them and cannot figure out why a job looking for a >> “programmer” requires 3+ years working with the entire Adobe Creative Suite >> including Photoshop and Fireworks, and why they say they’re building a CMS >> but there’s no requirement for any database experience. >> >> So someone perfectly suited for the job responds and gets rejected because >> they don’t have the requisite “design” expertise. >> >> Last week I saw a job req for a junior web developer that requires, >> “extensive experience with Adobe Creative Suite, php, perl, python, MySQL >> (including stored procs), database design and administration, Apache, >> TomCat, and HTML5/CSS3." >> >> There was a position on Dice looking for “a minimum of 5 years of >> demonstrable experience writing apps in Swift”. >> >> I got an email from a recruiter last week (a young woman who probably >> recently left a phone sales job with AmEx or Vanguard) who said, “I’ve got >> a requirement for someone with extensive C++ programming experience, >> including OOA and OOD. I don’t see a lot of people with OOA and OOD >> experience listed in their resume, so you probably have a really great shot >> at this position!” [never heard back] >> >> Job req stated: “Java experience helpful”. Me: “What version of Java are >> they using?” Recruiter: “They just said Java. Does it matter what version?” >> >> Recruiter: “I see you have some php experience in your background. We have >> a web developer position that I think you’d be a great fit for.” Me: “Do >> they require any graphic arts or visual design experience?” Recruiter: “No, >> they don’t mention that.” Job req: “Requires: 5+ years Adobe Creative >> Suite, including Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Fireworks, etc.” >> >> Job req: “We’re looking for a seasoned senior devleoper with 10+ years of >> C++ expertise.” Recruiter: “They’re looking for someone with recent C++ >> experience; you haven’t worked with it in several years.” Me: “What version >> of C++ are they using?” Recruiter: “It doesn’t say…” Next day: “I checked >> with the manager and he said they’re using C++99.” Me: “I worked with that >> version for quite a while.” Recruiter: “I’m sorry, they really want someone >> with recent experience.” >> >> HR: “We’re looking for someone with experience in Java, specifically >> lambdas and closures.” Me: “So you’re using Java 8?” HR: “No, this is for a >> Java 6 role. But you have to have experience with lambdas and closures. I >> don’t see that on your resume.” [Lambdas and closures are mostly new to >> Java 8, and not present in Java 6.] >> >> My question: How in the hell does anybody get hired ANYWHERE without flat >> out LYING about stuff on their resume? >> >> Everybody is hiring for experience with the latest tooks and buzzwords. >> Nobody cares that you’ve got 10+ years of OOA/OOD/OOP expertise if you >> cannot write code in the latest language du jour with your eyes closed. >> They prefer college kids with no depth of experience but one semester of >> some language over senior people with tons of experience and nothing as >> current as the college kid has. And from what I can tell, I could spend the >> next two years working with everything under the sun on my own, and nobody >> will give a rip because I have no “on the job experience” with any of it. >> >> It’s really messed up. When I go to job fairs there are mostly foreigners >> and older folks. And recruiters basically admitting that nobody is hiring >> into junior roles to learn new stuff except college grads. Everybody says >> they want to hire someone who can “hit the ground running”, which makes no >> sense to me because I’ve never had a job where I didn’t have to spend >> several weeks (if not months) learning their software apps first (mostly by >> reading the code b/c they don’t like their devs wasting time writing >> documentation). >> >> -David >> >> >> >>> On Jul 22, 2015, at 10:40 PM, der.hans wrote: >>> >>> Am 22. Jul, 2015 schwätzte Nathan England so: >>> >>> moin moin, >>> >>>> The company I currently work for has 3 developer position openings and >> in 4 months we've had only two candidates apply. That seems to me a real >> need for developers. Either that or the job description is too complicated >> for them to get past. >>> >>> ( None of this is pointing at any specific person or company, it just >>> seems like the best place in the thread to mention it. ) >>> >>> There's an open secret about tech unemployment, it's been really low for >>> years, even when general unemployment was really high. >>> >>> Due to this apparently being a secret, we get job descriptions that list >>> every technology someone can cut and paste from Internet search results. >>> >>> But, since tech unemployment is actually low, it's hard to find >> candidates. >>> >>> In tech we're also usually looking for specialists. Do welding companies >>> ask for someone expert in one particular welder? Are there dozens of >>> brands of welders to choose from such that skills ( from the viewpoint of >>> HR ) don't transfer to another brand of welder? Sorry, you only know java >>> welders... >>> >>> So, we have a lack of candidates because people have jobs and don't >>> need to look around and also because job descriptions are searching for >>> unrealistic lists of skills while simultaneously focusing on narrow >>> fields. >>> >>> Then, when candidates do appear, many get overlooked due to the narrow >>> field view or lack of buzzwork bingo on their resumes. The habitually >>> unemployed or new to the field seem are really up against heavy odds, >> even >>> in the low unemployment state we've been in for years. >>> >>> Even an expert will have a learning curve to learn how your environment >>> does it. The example I like to give is that if you hire Larry Wall to >> join >>> your Perl team ( or Guido von Rossum for Python or Rasmus Lerdorf for >>> PHP... ), he will need time to learn how your team works. Granted, if he >>> then makes suggestions your team should probably listen intently :). >>> >>> For entry and junior level positions, look for candidates that are good >> at >>> technology and learning, then give them room to grow into the specific >>> position. You need that anyway because your environment *is* different. >>> >>> For senior positions, find those who know the field, then see if you >> think >>> they can become the expert you need. The most likely reason we're looking >>> is to do something new :). >>> >>> Also, please cross-train so when someone does leave the rest of the team >>> isn't left with huge gaps in knowledge and experience! >>> >>> ciao, >>> >>> der.hans >>> >>>> Nathan >>>> >>>> On 2015-07-22 10:45, Keith Smith wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I posted for an entry level LAMP developer a week or so ago figuring I >>>>> would find a number of people wanting to break into LAMP development. >>>>> What I received was a lackluster response. I was offering $22/hr 1099 >>>>> with the potential to bill 40 hours a week. I figured by the time >>>>> that person pays for health insurance figured at $250/mo, pays he self >>>>> employment tax, and takes some vacation time and holiday time off, >>>>> this compensation would be about $18 an hour W2 or $36,000 a year. >>>>> Here is the contract description: >>>>> I am looking for an entry level LAMP developer. Would like someone >>>>> with entry level PHP skills and entry level Linux skills. Stuff like >>>>> the ability to add a user, add a sudo user, and configure vhosts on >>>>> apache. I will give directions with examples and they will be working >>>>> on a development VPS so if they blow it we just spin up another. As >>>>> for PHP skills if this person knows how to write a MySql connection >>>>> string and is able to insert, update, delete and list.... this person >>>>> could be what I am looking for. This is a maintenance job. This >>>>> person would need to know some HTML and CSS. jQuery would be a plus. >>>>> This contract could last as long as 2 or 3 years. At that point we >>>>> would need to either up the compensation or understand when this >>>>> person takes off for other opportunities. >>>>> Is the compensation fair? Any ideas why I received such a lukewarm >> response? >>>>> Your feedback is much appreciated. >>>>> Keith >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> # http://www.LuftHans.com/ http://www.PhxLinux.org/ >>> # Don't step in front of speeding cars, don't eat explosives >>> # and don't use m$ LookOut :). - >> der.hans--------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> > > > > -- # http://www.LuftHans.com/ http://www.PhxLinux.org/ # Science is magic explained. - der.hans