I agree, the OT thread stated above has gone on far too long and caused a lot of unnecessary strife.

as for the political (and human) situation we find ourselves in, this quote seems most
appropriate:
"The avalanche has already started... It is too late for the pebbles to vote." - Kosh (babylon 5 tv series season 3)

At great risk, I will say this:

I joined this list to learn more about Linux.  I did use Windows in every computer I own, including our business.  I want to migrate away from that never-ending money pit, but at the same time be comfortable that there are the resources available to maintain a Linux system. 

From an outsider's view, it has been interesting.  I've met and visited with people who are outside my 'normal' circle, and I find that refreshing.  Some 35 or so years ago, I was in such a group, but left to find other work, but I always watched from the sideline to see what was happening, computer-wise.

Having been "retired" for several years, I felt it was time to 'get serious' about an alternate OS, and after some research, picked Linux, and joined PLUG.  I tried to stay semi-hidden and low-key to bring myself up to speed, but I have found that my life has almost always revolved around my attempts to make every place I go somewhat better (at least in my eyes?), and I found the Linux Community to be no different in that respect.

Recognizing that newbies need to pay their dues, I contributed to the group by sitting at the sign-in desk while the forums were going on at the ABLE Conference (Did not get to see even one full presentation), I attended installfests, hackfests, and meetings on the "west" side.  I tried to figure out what all those German phrases meant (sorry Hans) and why we would use them, finally after asking some long-time members about them, did as they did, and just ignored them.  When we lost our "West Side" meeting location, I found a location, albeit ever FURTHER East....dang it!  At that time, I indicated that my schedule would not allow me to locate speakers, but I would do the location, and I would still watch for a location further West to accommodate those who live "out here".....  I quickly learned that if you offer your assistance, more responsibility is thrust upon you, and suddenly, the emails you send privately get "lost", and no response is received.....so you find yourself with a location but no program - not a good deal, so you end up doing what you said you could not.....(Crying now over <G>)

The end result is that I have added Linux to several 'play' computers, and am more comfortable than I was, but still not ready to make the entire switch.  As my businesses are in a rural area of America, not here in the metro area, I feel i still need to gain more knowledge first.

Every event I attend, every posting on this list, every conversation I have with a Linux user gives me a tad bit more understanding, and I am 'getting there'.

My unsolicited thoughts on the OT posting is this:  Each of us has interests and knowledge outside of the Linux world.  When we meet face to face, we talk about them.  Why should it be any different here?  If there is interest, there will replies; if not, there will not.  As you look back at the number of posts, it seems the most responded to are OT, but it in no way diminishes the real value of the "on-topic" posts - but if you look, you will see some 'lurkers' who, I suppose like me, are not knowledgeable enough to post Linux items, but watch and learn and then participate when something comes along that they feel comfortable with.

This is far too long, so let me stop now with the thought that led to this post: 

"The avalanche has already started... It is too late for the pebbles to vote."

Yes, it has started, but it is not too late for the pebbles to vote.  You have two choices:

1.  Sit back, complain and do nothing else, in which case, Kosh is correct.

2.  do something, even if it is talking about the issues

If you think Kosh is correct, filter out the OT, that's why it is there.  However, look at all the thoughts and ideas that have surfaced during this discussion......

If you think the PLUG people have thoughts and can contribute outside of LINUX, then do something.  In this particular issue we EACH will decide, at some point, which direction America will turn.  We will decide by our vote.  You can do as I did with Linux, and dip you toe into politics (oooh, what a nasty word!!! ) by becoming a PRECINCT COMMITTEEMAN in your own neighborhood (ask me if you want), and share your thoughts with your neighbors to influence their votes, or you can withdraw into your own Linux world.

WE make the world that we live in, like it or not.

lyle